Topic: War Altar worthwhile?

[Jabbercrow]

I was wondering what people's experience was with the War Altar in game, specifically I am wondering about the 6 inch bubble? I haven't used one so far, only used a Hurricanum for its 6 inch effect and I have found that it somewhat restricts my play. I end up turtling in tight deployment to maximise the +1 to hit effect rather than play aggressively as it exposes the Hurricanum and also diminishes the benefit as combat becomes more spread out. So, my questions is really whether the War Altar is used to play a very defensive game with units surrounding it so they can all benefit or whether it is played more aggressively and reactively? If it is the latter, I would wonder at its benefit over taking Warrior Priests in the unit. Afterall, spending as much as one has to on an Arch Lector, War Altar, any protection in order to keep something out of combat seems a little much (even if you do get Banishment, which is pretty awesome given my typical undead foe).

Clearly there seems to be something of a learning curve to how you use it, but I woudl be really interested to see whether people thought it was better to take Warrior Priests in droves/War Altar?

Thanks!

[Lord Solar Plexus]

Yes, the War Altar is worth taking. The improved Ld bubble means you can put it somewhere centre-left or centre-right and support an offensive wing with the prayers. It is less resilient against cannon fire but more resilient against combat damage simply because it does not need to be in combat to affect it compared to a normal AL/WP. While cannon are popular, they are less frequent than combat IME, which happens each and every game (and which incidentally is where you want your WP to be).

Lastly, it can, depending on item combination and character choices, actually be cheaper than a General and two WP's (and then can theoretically cover more units). Even if you field an AL + one WP it will not cost drastically more.   

[finngoalie]

You really need to base your army around an arch lector general. I just had a 3000 point game today against Chaos Warriors with their new book. I took arch lector on war altar(armor silvered steel, talisman preservation, grt wpn), Lvl4 Light wizard(scroll, dragonbane gem), Cpt ASB (crown Cmd + dragonhelm, plate, barded horse), Cpt (armor of Meteoric Iron and great weapon who killed Wolfrick in challenge, thanks to Altar,Hurricanum,Speed of Light spell), 1 priest on horse with IC knights, priest in halberd horde. I was cramped on manouver, but only because we rolled up the battlefield that runs diagonal with only 12 inch no man's land. He surrendered end of turn 5.

[mr chumley warner]

There was a thread last year on this, and the overall conclusion was that the new Walter is a poor choice

[Jabbercrow]

Thanks for the feedback chaps - I will try it out myself and see how it affects my play. I was just really intrigued as to whether it affected your own manouevring and play style due to the bubble limitation. I think I need to try an offensive list next as I turtle too much...

[finngoalie]

I sent you my character list to show interaction. I only rely on the altar bubble for a halberd horde, detachment of halberds and archer detachment who screen both. Stick another priest in 9 IC knight unit and another in greatswords....but that was 3000 pt game. The 12 inch bubble for battle prayers works well, covers more than you think. When I make opponent use dispell dice against my Lvl 4, I almost always get off 2 prayers with left over power dice he can't dispell. I put my altar and hurricanum 2-3 inches apart and behind the halberds and greatswords so both wagons affect both units. It does take patience, thought and tactics. 

[Krokz]

War Altar is a good choice if you have DGKs in the army. This is the only way to get hatred on Demys. And Demys without hatred can flunk rolls like tards (happened too many times). Not to forget prayers on them ...

The other reason is if you have 2+ light wizards in you army. Banishment from WAltar is nasty and IF does not destroy the item.


If you have at least one of this two things above in your army then War Altar is a good choice. If you have both its a must!

[rothgar13]

There was a thread last year on this, and the overall conclusion was that the new Walter is a poor choice

Wait, what? Then how come all the tourney lists have it? The War Altar isn't going anywhere, folks. It's still the most competitive way to set up your Arch Lector, who is still the best non-caster Lord (though the Grand Master has narrowed the gap).

[Krokz]

All the tourney lists have WA because they have a lot of DGKs. If there would be a viable competative Empire list without DGKs I am sure there would be a list with no WA to

[rothgar13]

Exactly. And there really isn't, so you take the Altar and you like it!

[Syn Ace]

War Altar is a good choice if you have DGKs in the army. This is the only way to get hatred on Demys. And Demys without hatred can flunk rolls like tards (happened too many times). Not to forget prayers on them ...

But the mounts don't get Hatred.

[commandant]

War Altar is a good choice if you have DGKs in the army. This is the only way to get hatred on Demys. And Demys without hatred can flunk rolls like tards (happened too many times). Not to forget prayers on them ...

But the mounts don't get Hatred.

I think WAAC players will claim that the mounts get hatred from the war altar, but not from the warrior priests or archlectors.

[Krokz]

It's not a claim. It's a fact

[Krokz]

Official FAQ:

Q: Do a Warrior Priest’s Righteous Fury and Battle Prayers affect
his unit’s mounts? (p36)
A: No.

Q: Does the War Altar of Sigmar’s Holy Fervour affect friendly
Empire characters? (p47)
A: Yes.

(emphasis mine)

It is clearly that this are two distinctly different abilities. Like Warrior priests do not give hatred but they give Righteous fury.  War Altar does not give hatred but gives Holy Fervour.
FAQ even makes it clear that WAs Holy Fervour exceeds the limitations of Righteous Fury - giving hatred to characters. Until FAQ explicitly answers a question regarding Holy Fervour and mounts it is obvious to think it works on mounts.

[commandant]

Well not really, there is still no logical way a man shouting will effect a horse, regardless of where he is.   However a hero is more likely to respect an Arch Lector than he is to respect a normal priest.

However it suits WAAC players not to be logical.

[GenOmar]

yup Kokz has it right.
I run AL on WAlter with XHW, White Cloak and VHS flanked by 3 DGK's each side.
Bring on the Demon Prince - come and meet your death

[GenOmar]

Well not really, there is still no logical way a man shouting will effect a horse, regardless of where he is.   However a hero is more likely to respect an Arch Lector than he is to respect a normal priest.

However it suits WAAC players not to be logical.

it's not so much WAAC, but more RAW.
besides AL is a lord level character, I'd expect more from a lord vs. a hero.

[Krokz]

Well not really, there is still no logical way a man shouting will effect a horse, regardless of where he is.   However a hero is more likely to respect an Arch Lector than he is to respect a normal priest.

A game of fireballs is not meant to be logical. Logic is there for fluff.

No judge on any tournament will say WA does not affect mounts. No player I played against even made an issue. It is kind of sad fellow empire players make it.

[Krokz]

And Holy fervour is NOT given by Arch Lector. It is given by War altar. If Arch Lector dies War altar still gives Holy Fervour -> hatred bubble. RAW.

[commandant]

Well not really, there is still no logical way a man shouting will effect a horse, regardless of where he is.   However a hero is more likely to respect an Arch Lector than he is to respect a normal priest.

However it suits WAAC players not to be logical.

it's not so much WAAC, but more RAW.
besides AL is a lord level character, I'd expect more from a lord vs. a hero.

Its not RAW -

RAW states.

Warrior priest hatred doesn't effect mounts or heroes or lords

War altar effects lords and heroes.


Nowhere does RAW say that the war altar effects mounts.   It is WAAC

Well not really, there is still no logical way a man shouting will effect a horse, regardless of where he is.   However a hero is more likely to respect an Arch Lector than he is to respect a normal priest.

A game of fireballs is not meant to be logical. Logic is there for fluff.

No judge on any tournament will say WA does not affect mounts. No player I played against even made an issue. It is kind of sad fellow empire players make it.

Fireballs are perfectly logical.

[rothgar13]

Sure it does. It says that everyone within 6" gets Hatred, and it's not the same special rule as that of the Warrior Priest (it comes from the War Altar itself). It definitely affects the DGKs, and indeed, that's most of the point of having the thing. Take that faux-high moral ground nonsense somewhere else.

[Krokz]

Warrior priest hatred doesn't effect mounts or heroes or lords

War altar effects lords and heroes.

Once more. WP and AL do not give hatred but give Righteous Fury. War Altar does not give Righteous fury but gives Holy Fervour. If it would be the same then the wording under War Altar would be "Arch Lector's Righteous Fury on war altar is given to all friendly units in 6" ..."

[Johnny-Crass]

Krakz and Rothy are correct on this.  This is plain and simple RAW, mounts get hatred from the alter.

[The Ol Perfesser]

Sure it does. It says that everyone within 6" gets Hatred, and it's not the same special rule as that of the Warrior Priest (it comes from the War Altar itself). It definitely affects the DGKs, and indeed, that's most of the point of having the thing. Take that faux-high moral ground nonsense somewhere else.

I don't have my book with me, but isn't the specific wording for Righteous Fury something like 'all units' within 6" get hatred?  So, the logic is that all models in a unit are included (thus mounts get hatred too).
I think that's the argument. 
BTW it's fine by me if the DGs get hatred.  Every little bit helps! 

[rothgar13]

Yes, yes it is. That's the crux of what Krokz and I are getting it - Holy Fervor is a completely different and separate special rule than Righteous Fury, and Holy Fervor provides blanket Hatred for everything within 6".