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Author Topic: War Altar worthwhile?  (Read 19613 times)

Offline Fandir Nightshade

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Re: War Altar worthwhile?
« Reply #25 on: February 06, 2013, 07:53:31 PM »
Even fluff wise...the War Altar is a magical artifact which infuses everyone (yes even horses) with the might of Sigmar.


Offline Krokz

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Re: War Altar worthwhile?
« Reply #26 on: February 06, 2013, 07:55:27 PM »
Righteous Fury is WP/AL ability not War Altars. Before the FAQ even Righteous Fury gave hatred to mounts. If FAQ wanted to change that rule for Righteous Fury AND Holy Favour then it would specifically say so.

Battle Prayers however do NOT affect mounts. Which is silly if you read the wording there:
Quote
Do a Warrior Priest’s Righteous Fury and Battle Prayers affect
his unit’s mounts?
So if AL on WA casts a Battle Prayer, DKGs mounts get it but War Altars Warhorses do not because that is HIS unit. Silly :) And if you cast Hammer of Sigmar then War Altar does not get to reroll to-wound on impact hits. I still love my DGKs stomp and STanks impact hits rerolls.

Offline Darknight

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Re: War Altar worthwhile?
« Reply #27 on: February 06, 2013, 07:57:32 PM »
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Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: War Altar worthwhile?
« Reply #28 on: February 06, 2013, 08:04:07 PM »
Any spell/prayer etc. that affects a unit, affects the whole unit, i.e. in the case of cavalry both rider and mount - unless specified otherwise.
As per FAQ, Righteous Fury has been specified otherwise. Holy Fervour has not, and thus still affects the whole unit, i.e. rider and mount.
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Offline rothgar13

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Re: War Altar worthwhile?
« Reply #29 on: February 06, 2013, 08:11:25 PM »
Well played, Darknight. Well played. Brought a smile to my face. :icon_lol:

Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: War Altar worthwhile?
« Reply #30 on: February 06, 2013, 08:23:15 PM »
Did He get baby rash from the blankets in the manger?
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Offline The Peacemaker

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Re: War Altar worthwhile?
« Reply #31 on: February 06, 2013, 08:39:15 PM »
Well not really, there is still no logical way a man shouting will effect a horse, regardless of where he is.   However a hero is more likely to respect an Arch Lector than he is to respect a normal priest.

However it suits WAAC players not to be logical.

You SIR!!! have insulted the intelligence and piety of my horse!
Rusty, my faithful steed, charge forth and dispatch this brigand with much hatred!!!


On a more serious note, its not unheard of for horses in battle to get worked up. There's a bond with horse and rider. If the men are all riled up then sometimes the horses do too.

And remember, the righteous fury isn't just the words from the warrior priest, they are magical words. 


Post FAQ, the war alter is worth it in your army if you have alot of mounts. And the fact that warrior priests get targeted like crazy in combat helps with deciding to take a war alter.
But then there is also an argument to just take a hurricanum for the +1 to hit since its affected every turn. And the hurricane is a fraction of the cost.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2013, 08:41:53 PM by The Peacemaker »
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Offline rothgar13

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Re: War Altar worthwhile?
« Reply #32 on: February 06, 2013, 09:08:16 PM »
The Hurricanum won't give your army Ld9 and a Stubborn, 4+ Ward save chariot you can use to jam things with, though. And it's awful hard to get it in your list when you already have 2 Steam Tanks.

Offline Syn Ace

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Re: War Altar worthwhile?
« Reply #33 on: February 06, 2013, 09:59:57 PM »
Before the FAQ even Righteous Fury gave hatred to mounts.

I would disagree. That's how some people interpreted it because it used the word unit. And they were wrong.

I don't buy it in the case of the War Altar either, but I guess another FAQ will decide it eventually. I could possibly see it as a magical ability, but GW rarely allows psychology to be transferred to a mount.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2013, 10:04:10 PM by Syn Ace »
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Offline The Ol Perfesser

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Re: War Altar worthwhile?
« Reply #34 on: February 06, 2013, 10:12:06 PM »
Before the FAQ even Righteous Fury gave hatred to mounts.

I would disagree. That's how some people interpreted it because it used the word unit. And they were wrong.

I don't buy it in the case of the War Altar either, but I guess another FAQ will decide it eventually. I could possibly see it as a magical ability, but GW rarely allows psychology to be transferred to a mount.

At the rate GW is going I wouldn't ever count on an FAQ clearing up anything...shall we now move to discussing steadfast?   :icon_wink:
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Offline Syn Ace

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Re: War Altar worthwhile?
« Reply #35 on: February 06, 2013, 10:16:01 PM »
Touche!  :happy:
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Offline Johnny-Crass

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Re: War Altar worthwhile?
« Reply #36 on: February 06, 2013, 10:31:02 PM »
Old FAQ on Banner of Rage would support the War Alter Mount Hatred argument... Just sayin :happy:
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Offline Syn Ace

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Re: War Altar worthwhile?
« Reply #37 on: February 06, 2013, 10:36:50 PM »
Which FAQ was it?
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Offline Krokz

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Re: War Altar worthwhile?
« Reply #38 on: February 06, 2013, 10:40:52 PM »
But then there is also an argument to just take a hurricanum for the +1 to hit since its affected every turn. And the hurricane is a fraction of the cost.
True to some degree. But then again WA is 150 and Hurricanum is 130. I would take Lector anyway. Plus Banishment and 6" prayers aren't something you scoff at.

Offline GenOmar

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Re: War Altar worthwhile?
« Reply #39 on: February 06, 2013, 10:59:42 PM »
the War Alter is an excellent upgrade/mount for the Arch Lector, very well worth it at 2400 pts or higher (still got to get that level 4 in there)
the alter makes his abilities increase exponentailly.
Holy Fevour: all units within 6" - Hatred
The Power of Sigmar: all units within 6" - all battle prayers
just to go to pass up.
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Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: War Altar worthwhile?
« Reply #40 on: February 06, 2013, 11:33:56 PM »
Before the FAQ even Righteous Fury gave hatred to mounts.

I would disagree. That's how some people interpreted it because it used the word unit. And they were wrong.

No. They were correct, based on the rules as they were. An FAQ has little to say about who was correct or not, as they can be very fleeting. To give just one example:

Official Update Version 1.5

Q: Can a fleeing model dispel spells or use magic items? (p24)
A: Yes.

Official Update Version 1.6a:
Q: Can a fleeing model dispel spells or use magic items? (p24)
A: No.
 
To repeat:
Any spell/prayer etc. that affects a unit, affects the whole unit, i.e. in the case of cavalry both rider and mount - unless specified otherwise.
As per FAQ, Righteous Fury has been specified otherwise. Holy Fervour has not, and thus still affects the whole unit, i.e. rider and mount.
It is not enough to have no ideas of your own; you must also be incapable of expressing them.
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Offline The Ol Perfesser

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Re: War Altar worthwhile?
« Reply #41 on: February 07, 2013, 12:15:19 AM »


No. They were correct, based on the rules as they were. An FAQ has little to say about who was correct or not, as they can be very fleeting. To give just one example:

Official Update Version 1.5

Q: Can a fleeing model dispel spells or use magic items? (p24)
A: Yes.

Official Update Version 1.6a:
Q: Can a fleeing model dispel spells or use magic items? (p24)
A: No.
 
To repeat:
Any spell/prayer etc. that affects a unit, affects the whole unit, i.e. in the case of cavalry both rider and mount - unless specified otherwise.
As per FAQ, Righteous Fury has been specified otherwise. Holy Fervour has not, and thus still affects the whole unit, i.e. rider and mount.

I always thought it was odd that you could dispel or use magic items when fleeing.  Glad to see this has changed.  :-)
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Offline The Peacemaker

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Re: War Altar worthwhile?
« Reply #42 on: February 07, 2013, 01:57:40 AM »
Before the FAQ even Righteous Fury gave hatred to mounts.

I would disagree. That's how some people interpreted it because it used the word unit. And they were wrong.

I don't buy it in the case of the War Altar either, but I guess another FAQ will decide it eventually. I could possibly see it as a magical ability, but GW rarely allows psychology to be transferred to a mount.

Then that would have been specified under mounts section of the BRB.
When it says 'unit' it means the whole unit.
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Offline Syn Ace

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Re: War Altar worthwhile?
« Reply #43 on: February 07, 2013, 06:00:48 AM »
See, that's the same argument that people used to throw out there for warrior priests giving hatred to mounts, because it said it convey it to the 'unit', which never seemed to be the intention and I'm glad they clarified it.
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Offline Krokz

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Re: War Altar worthwhile?
« Reply #44 on: February 07, 2013, 07:11:51 AM »
See, that's the same argument that people used to throw out there for warrior priests giving hatred to mounts, because it said it convey it to the 'unit', which never seemed to be the intention and I'm glad they clarified it.
As said, if that would be the case then FAQ wound include few more words in that question like "and War Altar Holy Fervour". Since the same FAQ version explained Holy Fervour and characters dilemma.
Ability always affect the whole unit unless wording says specifically otherwise. Your only argument is that Holy Fervour is not magic but psychology (even dough Warhammer does not differentiate abilities like that per se, as D&D does) and I am sure there are tons of negative "psychological" abilities from other armies where we play as if it affects the mount to.
I hope FAQ clarifies that instead of lame ass questions like it did the last version. :)

Offline Lord Solar Plexus

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Re: War Altar worthwhile?
« Reply #45 on: February 07, 2013, 10:30:37 AM »
Debates like these as well as the underlying problematic rules are what makes me not want to play a game again.
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Offline Johnny-Crass

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Re: War Altar worthwhile?
« Reply #46 on: February 07, 2013, 05:00:31 PM »
Debates like these as well as the underlying problematic rules are what makes me not want to play a game again.

to quote JFK

"We play warhammer not because it is easy but because it is hard!"
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Offline Darknight

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Re: War Altar worthwhile?
« Reply #47 on: February 07, 2013, 05:11:29 PM »
To be fair, when JFK said that he might not have been meaning getting to the Moon was hard, but rather something else. This was the height of Cold War bacculum waving . . .
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Offline Johnny-Crass

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Re: War Altar worthwhile?
« Reply #48 on: February 07, 2013, 05:18:43 PM »
Well JFK was a well known no peasant Bretonnian player who scorned the Tree-Bucket is 8th edition.  Really a pioneer of competitive 8th
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Offline Porkix

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Re: War Altar worthwhile?
« Reply #49 on: February 08, 2013, 04:16:35 AM »
Johnny,

Any thread you can refer me to for this JFK? I would like to read about his no peasant army logic.


Porkix