Topic: War Altar worthwhile?

[Jabbercrow]

While I initially found it a bit jarring to think that some priest was able to whip a Demigryph into hating anything with religion, it does make sense fluff-wise to think of it as an emanting power from the War Altar that infuses even mounts with that hatred even if they don't know why they hate something.

Thanks for putting me right on that as I wouldn't have played it like that and now the idea of DGs re-rolling hits makes it a lot more appealing!

[MarkoV]

Well not really, there is still no logical way a man shouting will effect a horse, regardless of where he is.   However a hero is more likely to respect an Arch Lector than he is to respect a normal priest.

However it suits WAAC players not to be logical.

All units in 6 inch have hatred. That means mounts, squids, stable boys, banners, each and every thing that can hit in that unit. It states in RULEBOOK and in ARMYBOOK. Clear as sunny day. On the other had, it's also CLEAR by the ARMY BOOK that WARRIOR PRIEST does not give hatred to MOUNTS AND CHARAKTERS. That is CLEAR EXCEPTION from COMMON RULE.
So leave your WAAC traumas out from here.

[Alucard]

At first I thought the new Waltar was inefficient and a waste of points.  Now, I'm coming around to the idea that it can be a valid unit again.  Alot of people compare it to the Hurricanum as they both offer combat buffs.  Hurricanum does it turn after turn while the Walter only applies to the first turn of a combat.  The prayers do help in ongoing combats but you need to get them off.  Having said that, the prayers are money and the Walter is much more durable and stubborn as well!  In the end, a list would have to be built around it and you cannot just chuck it into any army and expect results.  If you plan on using it, I think 2 units of 4 demigryphs are the way to go to make use of its hatred.  If your army uses GS then priest in the unit suffices. 

I would also spam large targets if I were to use the Walter, ie. 2 steam tanks.  Force opponents to pick what to fire at with his Iron Blasters or Warp Lightning Cannons.  Light Wizard as previously mentioned would also be sweet to get double banishment happening.  Helps tons vs the new Daemon Prince and the new Daemons book is right around the corner too!  Below is a generic army list make up of a War Altar army IMO:

Arch Lector on War Altar
Level 4 Light Wizard

550pts of Core (calvalry or halberdiers etc)

4 Demigryphs
4 Demigryphs

Steam Tank
Steam Tank

Cheers,

 

Alucard

[mr chumley warner]

The Walter is a festering wart!

All it does is sit there and die,

it's already dead before turn 1 starts , it's a rubbish anvil and a bad hammer, and hatred is over rated  ,

do yourself a favour and swap it for 3 chickens and a Celestial Hurricanium wagon treat

 

[commandant]

Well not really, there is still no logical way a man shouting will effect a horse, regardless of where he is.   However a hero is more likely to respect an Arch Lector than he is to respect a normal priest.

However it suits WAAC players not to be logical.

All units in 6 inch have hatred. That means mounts, squids, stable boys, banners, each and every thing that can hit in that unit. It states in RULEBOOK and in ARMYBOOK. Clear as sunny day. On the other had, it's also CLEAR by the ARMY BOOK that WARRIOR PRIEST does not give hatred to MOUNTS AND CHARAKTERS. That is CLEAR EXCEPTION from COMMON RULE.
So leave your WAAC traumas out from here.

Lots of capital letters there.   Are capital letters on the internet not the normal sign of a abbreviation.   I wonder what W.A.R.R.I.O.R.P.R.I.E.S.T is an abbreviation for.   I'm open to suggestions.   Of course they could just be there to represent shouting in which case would would need to look down a completely different like.

it's already dead before turn 1 starts , it's a rubbish anvil and a bad hammer, and hatred is over rated  ,

Now now Mr Chumley, hatred is not over rated, just look at what it is doing to another person's reason, spelling and use of capital letters, before we get on to my halberdiers or Greatswords.

[PeytonS]

The Walter is a festering wart!

All it does is sit there and die,

it's already dead before turn 1 starts , it's a rubbish anvil and a bad hammer, and hatred is over rated  ,

do yourself a favour and swap it for 3 chickens and a Celestial Hurricanium wagon treat

 

Bro, hatred is one of the most powerful special rules in the game, don't knock it!

[Johnny-Crass]

Its a bad anvil/hammer?  Well look at you figuring out that a SUPPORT piece is bad at being a COMBAT piece.  Please before you go off on a rant about how bad something is try using it correctly and as stated before Hatred/Rerolls is the strongest rule in Warhammer.

[mr chumley warner]

lol

I'd prefer my +1 to Hit every round personally,

Ok so as we all know I like to talk trash after a few glasses of Vino Rouge ,

Hatred is nice really, just only in turn 1.

But seriously, with magic items, your average Walter is gonna set you back 350-400 ish.....

How does that possibly get justified as a support unit?

It's more like a huge investment and points sink, with little pay off

Any enemy character with any Salt will take it out ,

I guess you could go VHS and some nice armour,

but again, I just don't quite see the merit here guys

Tell me what I am missing?

If you persuade me I will run it again,

after all I play very rarely, and need baby feeding info!

Until my last 4 games , I thought the Stank was a poor selection, now I take 2 and never lose a game , lol

[Porkix]

The altar is good but matching your play style Chumley: you go for huge battle with 5000pts each side and you like enormous blocks (100 halberds, 40 knights).

The altar is good to provide hatred and the prayer to multiple units, with the size of your units, it can hardly cover 2.

My take and the altar is to not put it in combat other than against chaff (a bit like the luminark), keep it cheap (charmed shield only) and spam prayers that affects mounts, characters and artillery battery. You can also enjoy the 18' Ld 9 bubble. 

6 dice on the flaming prayer next to your artillery battery the 1st turn is good.

The difficulty for me is to keep it next to my combat block during the battle but 260 pts for all that is not that bad.

It's only not competitive due to the fragility to shooting/spell against certain army (blood and glory against dwarf and your down your general 1st turn)

Porkix

[Krokz]

I think I played more then 10 games with ma Altar and only lost it once (Ogre cannon). Which was my foult. It was the only time I didn't hide it behind STank at deployment.
Otherwise its 300 points for a 18" ld9 bubble, hatred/prayer bubble and a cheap banishment that can kill chaff or even more if you have Light wizard or fight against undead/deamon.

The only downside I see is 8" move. It just can't keep up with Demys. I never went into melee with WA, was not needed.

[Ether Dude]

I assume you equip him to survive?  4++ and a charmed shield?  Maybe white cloak or fencer's blades?  Do you speculum or no?

[rothgar13]

I like Armor of Destiny and the Speculum. More worried about fighty characters than I am cannons, since we have more and/or better cannons than everyone else anyway.

[Lord Solar Plexus]

It's vino tinto, mr warner, and your Lumi or Hurri is no more alive, a worse anvil, a worse hammer and will be taken out by any salty character. If those points had any merit, drop the Lurri (lollol, to say it in your words).

My average Waltar comes in below 300 points with magic items and horses. It's a much better General than your Humi. It's just as expensive or cheap as your wagon plus your average General, so that's another moot point.

[Talben21]

Chumley is 100% right about the War-Altar. Its too many points and too damn vulnerable. If they had given the guy on top a 4+ save and lowered the Altar down to 100 points it would be viable. Right now it is just a really, really bad support piece.

[Fandir Nightshade]

No it isn´t Rothgar has the right of it. Even though I was sceptic...and even though it keeps dying on me it really helped during all games I used it.

[rothgar13]

The thing is, there's simply no substitute for what it offers, which is a 18" Ld bubble combined with Hatred and Prayers for Demigryphs and a character that can at least hold off fighty enemy Lords for a while. Nothing we have in the Lords section trumps that, or even comes all that close. The Runefang + Other Trickster's Shard Grand Master is cute, but he's not at the same power level.

[Fandir Nightshade]

Even if you go further to other armies....nobody has anything like it ....hatred bubble oh boy how most cc oriented armies would love that one.

It is a mind trick thing going on ....Most Empire Generals STILL don´t realize that we are mostly about cc nowadays.

Demigryphons, stanks, buffwagons (hurricanum and war altar) and lots of halberdiers and if you feel like it greatswords (love the models and they are okish if buffed) make for an extremely fighty army that can go toe to toe with ....well about anything.

[rothgar13]

I agree. The fact that I'm using Steam Tanks and Demigryphs to beat foes like Ogres back tells me that we use missile fire for support, not as a win condition.

[polybus11]

I'm really loving the War Altar especially for those multiple combats where you can affect all your units and MOUNTS (at least for now).  Even if you compare to semi naked warrior priests leading your big blocks, its sweet not being vulnerable to them killing your warrior priest before you can benefit from the hatred. 

[Minsc]

The Waraltar is decent enough if the AL is the general, otherwise it's way to expensive for what it does.

[mr chumley warner]

Swap the walter for 2 buff wagons,

that way you get +1 dispel and + 1 power dice every magic phase, and you can buff 2 big units of halberds for the +1 hit and 6+ ward save eat !

[PeytonS]

Swap your general for 2 rare units?  I'm not sure that's such a good idea.

[rothgar13]

It's not. At all. The War Altar provides something those buff wagons simply cannot, and that is Leadership. chumley will likely never feel the pinch of resource deprivation due to the fact that he has ~1250 points of Rare to play with (which is 4 Steam Tanks and those 2 buff wagons), but those of us who play normal-sized (2000-2500) games will not have the allowance for it.

[mr chumley warner]

but surely the lower the pts , the more reason to not take a walter?

imagine a walter in a 2500 game, draining 350 of your points , 

noooo

[PeytonS]

Arch Lector:  Heavy Armour, Charmed shield, Talisman of Preservation, War Altar.  304 points for a durable and cannon resilient character that bubbles hatred, prayers, is stubborn, has a bound banishment, and an 18" ld bubble.  I'd say that's a damn good deal.