Topic: 40K

[Crimsonsphinx]

Generally I would give a dreadnaught a heavy flamer instead of a storm bolter every day of the week unless it is going to stay back.

Depending who you play against, the incinerator is probably worth it, although if you are playing guard or eldar don't bother   Everyone else has enough high toughness stuff to justify s6 

[rufus sparkfire]

Great, that's what I thought!

Having an incinerator is more flufftastic, definitely.


Also, it turns out the powerfist is also a force weapon, which might even matter sometimes!

[Aldaris]

Some tweaks I'd propose Feanor: The Lord should have a Disc rather than a jump pack - the extra attack is nice.

Lascannons on the Defiler are a waste - you can shoot either them or the Battlecannon, but not both. Good loadout: BC, heavy flamer, extra DCCW. Done. No extra cost, and effective.
I concur about the PF being better on the Raptor champ, but the model has lightning claws, so I guess that's up to you. Drop one, you'll have 8 plus the lord, equals nine. Tadaa!
Give the other terminators Combimeltas as well. 4 are better than two!

Consider using only one HQ and investing in another troops choice. 2 is not enough in 5th edition.

Drop the extra armor on the preddies - you don't want to move them anyway so you can shoot everything, and all extra armor does is downgrade stunned to shaken. Both amount to "I won't shoot this turn", so don't bother.

[Cannonofdoom]

Well this Battlescribe has a few errors/pitfalls in it's army list making, but nothing at all major. All you need to do is have the codex with you whilst you make it. And yes, I can already hear the "but if you need the book why bother?" cries now. I'll let you work it out.

Edit: seems a lot of the issues with item selections I had are actually pointed out at the very bottom of the screen, so ok then.

I use Battlescribe. Their data files are not terribly difficult to edit and fix yourself. I had to do it for Beastmen and Empire.

[Crimsonsphinx]

Daemonic possession is much better than extra armour.  Taking a hit to bs3 is bad though, so it balances out.  However on vindicators or land raiders it is actually a good upgrade.

I like my defiler with twin autocannon and a havoc launcher.  Becomes a jack of all trades unit then, with moderate anti tank and anti infantry. 

Chaos lords can take wings instead of jump packs.  If you do this, you can put him in a rhino     I don't think the advantage of a disk is worth losing the extra bodies to protect you from shooting that you get having wings/jump pack.

[rufus sparkfire]

Does anyone else think lascannons are consistently overcosted on almost everything except the weirdly underpriced vendetta gunship?

For example: twin psybolt autocannon vs twin lascannon on a dreadnought. 15 points more for the lascannon!


I get the impression that the rules think the lascannon is a lot better than it actually is.

[Cannonofdoom]

Does anyone else think lascannons are consistently overcosted on almost everything except the weirdly underpriced vendetta gunship?

For example: twin psybolt autocannon vs twin lascannon on a dreadnought. 15 points more for the lascannon!


I get the impression that the rules think the lascannon is a lot better than it actually is.

Way cheaper on Dev squads in Blood Angel Codex than regular Space Marine Codex too.

[Finlay]

does anyone play Tau/have hints on army comp?

[Crimsonsphinx]

Lascannons are over priced, especially compared to the far superior melta weapons.  I agree some of the designers at GW overestimate just how useful lascannons are.  I think this is probably something to do with the lascannon trading on its name from earlier editions where it really was a premier anti tank gun.

Usually devestator units pay an inflated cost on lascannons as well, making them even less useful.  I think realistically a lascannon should be the same price as a multimelta.

[Aldaris]

Chaos lords can take wings instead of jump packs.  If you do this, you can put him in a rhino     I don't think the advantage of a disk is worth losing the extra bodies to protect you from shooting that you get having wings/jump pack.

The Disc makes you jump infantry. So no disadvantage!

[Fandir Nightshade]

There also must be a powerful autocannon lobby.

 

I think the vendetta is underpriced not only weaponwise but....well with everything. (except real world money I guess....I wonder if anyone would complain if you just use Hind helicopter Models:

http://www.haertle.de/out/1/html/0/dyn_images/1/trumpeter-05103-mi-24-hind-61_p1.jpg

[Aldaris]

I would.
 

And yes, the Vendetta is a bit cheap for what it does. Especially if you compare it to similar skimmers like the Stormraven.

[Fandir Nightshade]

130 points for a transport with armour 12 12 10, sort of all the upgrades you can have additional armour, smoke grenades 3 synch lasercannons, fast.

I should have gone for that wayland deal when the pound was weak 3 for the price of two....well one in Germany. Aww the sweet memories of old days when I was still rich.

 

[Aldaris]

I propably wouldn't have bought two If I had to buy them myself - but as a christmas gift they were fine!
 

[Fandir Nightshade]

Meeeeeeerrry christmas.....one also has to consider that you can take a sip from your mug of coffee while humming Wagners "Ritt der Walküren" and praising the qualities of Napalm everytime you field some of them. That alone should be worth 50 points.

Well the only pitty is that the Vendetta is not the Valkyrie I would have preferred it the other way around. Has anyone ever fielded Valkyries? Are the Rockets of one shot any good?

[Crimsonsphinx]

I give my Vendetta a pair of heavy bolters.  Is this normal?  I think it is possibly slightly too cheap, but a heavy weapons squad with 3 lascannons using orders can also twin link theirs, and they are cheaper, not a gigantic target and can get cover saves.

I see a lot of lists with Valkyries with rocket pods and a multilaser,  as the rockets are s4 and therefore "defensive" weapons.  Can slap some large bolter strength templates on people.  Im not convinced personally.

Rockets of 1 shot on a bs3 guardsman.  I think not.     Very underwhelming and less useful than the Vendetta twin lascannon IMO

[Crimsonsphinx]

Chaos lords can take wings instead of jump packs.  If you do this, you can put him in a rhino     I don't think the advantage of a disk is worth losing the extra bodies to protect you from shooting that you get having wings/jump pack.

The Disc makes you jump infantry. So no disadvantage!

Wings are still better as you can use transports 

[Aldaris]

Wings are still better as you can use transports 

If you're going to use a transport, why bother buying wings?

The Disc is only good if you join a squad of Raptors. Not an optimal choice, but I used to play that quite a lot. And it's a beastly unit against infantry! Up to 12 PW attacks from the Lord alone (4 base+charge+disc+D6 from the demon weapon), and D6 S4 AP3 shots, 2 flamer templates and a smattering of bolt pistols before the dance begins. Initiative is the weak point of this unit, but as long as you keep that in mind and chose your targets wisely it's awesome (hey... MoS might be a good choice for those dudes... hm).

[Aldaris]

... but a heavy weapons squad with 3 lascannons using orders can also twin link theirs, and they are cheaper, not a gigantic target and can get cover saves.

And lack transport capacity, an AV, speed, tactical flexibility and oh yeah, they die like bitches to anything S6 and up.

Inicidentally, I'll have a game with my CSM tonight - propably against a Vulcan Salamanders list or Wolves.

[Crimsonsphinx]

Well you can assault directly out of a land raider with wings.  I am not saying it is a brilliant plan, but is something you can do!

Aldaris, you are obviously correct, but I was just putting it out there    The Vendetta is one of the best options in the codex.  It is probably around 20 points under costed though.  Anything more, and I don't think it would be good value.

I find daemon weapons are quite lethal, although many players on the internet say they are poor.  In my experience they turn a chaos lord into a killing machine, without one he is a mediocre choice at best.  Lords of Khorne are quite capable of scaring units away from objectives without even charging if armed with a daemon weapon.

Mark of Slaanesh is rarely used around me, although it makes a good choice if you are taking lightning claw terminators.  Also on the Lash sorcerer, but he is less useful now everyone hides in transports!

[Aldaris]

I like Demon weapons too, it's the randomness that makes people say they aren't good. Fuck randomness. Beneficial 83% of the time is good enough for me. And with a MoT Lord, you also have a sweet 4++ for those times where it doesn't work so well.

As mentioned above, game tonight. Nice coincidence, haven't played my CSM a while.

[Crimsonsphinx]

Aldaris, do you happen to know what the odds are you will club yourself with a Khorne Daemon weapon?  Around 1/3?  Either dice rolling a 1, independently of each other is around that, although double 1 is only 1 hit.

Still, the posibility exists of you rocking into combat with a mighty 18 attacks from your lord on foot!  [lord(4), MoK(1), charging(1), daemon weapon (12)  ]

A lot of people claim a single lightning claw is better than a daemon weapon.  A 1 in 6 chance for something bad is acceptable to me [as a skaven player that is more than fine]

Chaos dreadnaughts on the other hand are a massive liability.  My three have the following load outs.  Can you guess which one I sometimes use?
A. Pair of DCCWs, heavy flamer, combi bolter
B. Plasma cannon, DCCW, combi bolter
C. Twin lascannon, missile launcher

 

 

[Aldaris]

Aldaris, do you happen to know what the odds are you will club yourself with a Khorne Daemon weapon?  Around 1/3?

I think so, yes. Which is why I would give the Khorne one a pass. If I want a fighty Khorne Lord I'll take Kharn.

Chaos dreadnaughts on the other hand are a massive liability.  My three have the following load outs.  Can you guess which one I sometimes use?
A. Pair of DCCWs, heavy flamer, combi bolter
B. Plasma cannon, DCCW, combi bolter
C. Twin lascannon, missile launcher

 

A I guess - although I sometimes take one with plasma Cannon, heavy flamer and extra armor. I run him on the Landraider flank and it's fine. Not a very good choice, but I do have a nicely painted model and sometimes I want to give him some fighty time!
 

[Crimsonsphinx]

You are correct Aldaris the two combat arm one is my preferred option currently.  I sometimes use my plasma one for the same role, although fielding a 200+ point tank just to stop the plasma wasting my own men doesn't seem especially good value.

I have been experimenting with taking chaos spawn to use in a similar role to the land raider, as a plasma cannon cant kill it in one shot.  So far it worked in the first game, then in the second my opponent knew why I was using it, and killed the spawn.  The dreadnought then took it on itself to shoot at my own men just for a change.

But we do save 5 whole points over a loyalist dread and we get an extra attack as well as insanity!  I do love my forge world dreadnaughts though, two sonic ones, and a word bearers one.  It is just a shame their rules make them so difficult to use.

How do you play their shooting rampage?  By the rules in the book, eg it turns round and shoots your own men because they are nearer, or by shooting whoever is nearest in their line of sight?

[Aldaris]

You are correct Aldaris the two combat arm one is my preferred option currently.  I sometimes use my plasma one for the same role, although fielding a 200+ point tank just to stop the plasma wasting my own men doesn't seem especially good value.

Oh, that's not the purpose of the Raider in my list, that would indeed be stupid. Berzerker delivery is what he's for, and he does it very well! Has been a staple in my CSM armies forever and almost never fails to apply a good asskickin'.
 

I have been experimenting with taking chaos spawn to use in a similar role to the land raider, as a plasma cannon cant kill it in one shot.  So far it worked in the first game, then in the second my opponent knew why I was using it, and killed the spawn.  The dreadnought then took it on itself to shoot at my own men just for a change.

Taking a unit that basically sucks and is propped up by one that sucks even more isn't a good idea. If I didn't use the Raider anyway I'd propably just take the odd friendly fire shot like a man.

How do you play their shooting rampage?  By the rules in the book, eg it turns round and shoots your own men because they are nearer, or by shooting whoever is nearest in their line of sight?

Nearest unit, period. Not nearest in LOS.