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Offline Zak

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Re: New Vampire Counts Stuff
« Reply #50 on: January 06, 2012, 07:52:27 PM »
A summary of the rumours we had:

- VC are next army book to be released in January,
- New unit flesh golems? - something like a mix of large ghoul and zombie ... with something no monsterous infantry has had before ...wings! Dual kit Monsterous infantry ... Ogre size undead monstrocities (can't be more specific) and monsterous flyers.
- New plastic black coach mini ... Dual kit makes two 'war machines' ... big ethereal warmachines ... neither is a Black coach. One is acalled a Coven Throne the other is a Mortis Engine. Coven Throne ... 'Lamian passion wagon' ... Mortis Engine ... 'ethereal alter type thing with added ghosts'. (It runs on undeaded. )
- Current Black coach stays and goes finecast.
- Dual cavalry kit wraith riders? and something else ... Black knights and something else?
- New krell,
- New female vampires (Riders on Coven throne and Isabella von Carstein).
- Hints of army book cover ... Dark red of Vampire/Bluegreen tint of etherealness in background.

My understanding is the book has five new units + Lords/Heroes.
That is alot of exciting new options/builds.
Includes four different 'chariot/warmachine' options.

What we know now:

Army Book written by Phil Kelly

Release in January. On sale from the 14th January (advanced orders for the 7th January)

Release includes:
New army book (96 pages)
Magic cards

New minis will be:
Plastic Kits:
Coven Throne/Mortis engine (Dual kit)
Black Knights/Hex Wraiths (Dual kit)
Vargheists/Crypt Horrors (Dual kit)
Plastic characters
Wight King
Finecast Characters:
Krell
Isabella von Carstein

Prices will be:

£36 for the Coven Throne/Mortis Engine,
£18.50 for five Black Knights/Hex Wraiths
£3.25 for the magic cards
£25 for the army book
£25-27? (37 Euros) for the big ghouls/ flying things.
£8 for Wight King
£10.50 (15 Euros) for Krell in Finecast
£9? (12.5 Euros) for Isabella von Carstein

lbecks did the maths for US prices it looks like it will be:

Engine/Throne $57.75
Cavalry $29.00
Big Ghouls/Mini Vargs ~$45?
Wight King $13.25
Krell $18.25
Isabella $15

Some rules picked up from White Dwarf. (Thanks again to ZAlpha)

Rules tidbits:

All Vampire has rule called "Hunger" - You get to roll a D6 when the vampire kills one or more models in combat, on a 6 you recovers one wound. (Vlad with Blood Drinker pass the roll on 4+)

Also Vampire, including vampiric creatures "such as" Varghulf and Vargheist, can march. So Vargheist will be able to move 20" per turn almost all the time. (not sure if Varghulf can also fly)

Vampiric Powers: (not all of them, just those mentioned in WD)
Flying Horror - give the vampire ability to fly (unsure)
Dread Knight - ability to boost WS (don't know how - but a Vampire Llord with Dread Knight has WS of 9)
Quickblood - gains ASF
Master of the Black Arts - get to re-roll one D6 for the Winds of Magic.
Dark Acolyte - add D3 to the total number of models raised by Nehek.
Red Fury - should be about the same. (unsure)

New units:

Coven Throne
- Basically a chariot mount for your Lord.
- Is a Large target with S5 T5 5W and 5+ save.
- has Spectral Steed rules (can move 8"), Undead, Vampiric, ASF (only for Handmaiden who has 2 S5 Attacks)
- has Random Attacks (2D6) at S3 from the spirit horde.
- Has Ward Save of 4+
- Battle of Wills (before the first enemy rolls to hit against the character or the Throne, both player roll a D6 and add their LD value. Has effects based on the difference of the score)
* no effect (0 or less)
* suffer -1WS/BS
* the enemy must re-roll successful To Hits
* each model in the enemy unit strike each other (only 1 attack per model)
- Has Bound Spell (lvl3) allowing the Throne (and all of its crew) to re-roll either To Hit or To Wound rolls.

Mortis Engine
- Is a Rare Choice
- Same stats as for the Throne (S5 T5 W5 Sv5+)
- has 2D6 attacks at S3 from the spirit horde
- Undead, Terror, Spectral Steed, and Regeneration
- can make Ghostly Howl attack.
- can take upgrade, allowing any wizards casting spell from the Lore of the Vampires to get +2 to their casting attempt. (ANY) miscast wizards rolls twice on the table and have the opponent choose the result)
- The Reliquary (at the start of your turn, roll 2D6 and add the current turn number - until the start of its next turn, all friendly Undead units within this number of range gains +1 bonus to their Regeneration, 6+ if they don't have any, to a maximum of 4+. Also, all enemy units within this range suffers D6 hits at the strength equal to the turn number.

- Also has some penalties if removed from play - by damaging every units within a random range at the strength equal to the current turn number)


Master Necromancer
- New Lord choice (ie. better Necromancer)

- Banshees and Cairn Wraith are now Hero

Hexwraiths (special)
- Fast Cavalry with Ethereal (yes!) that can inflict automatic S5 hits on unit that it moved through.

Vargheist (special)
- Flying Monstrous Infantry that has Fly, Frenzy, and 3A.

Crypt Horrors (special)
- Monstrous Infantry unit with M6 S4 T5 I2 W3 A3, has Poisoned Attacks, Regeneration 5+, and Undead

I think that's all I've seen in the WD...

BTW, Heinrich Kemmler is back in finecast (and in the book) for sure. But on the original sculpt, no new miniature for him. (at least for now)

Seeing lots of people wondering if the Bloodline is back in the book.
Honestly, I'm not sure as it's not specifically mentioned rule-wise.

Round up from YoungOlo

The Hunger is character only thing, WD explicitly states this.

Vlad and Isabella both get ASF if they are part of the same unit. My guess is this is the "Beloved in Death" rule. Also, Isabella can heal Vlad with her Blood Chalice of Bathori (but I guess this will be in her rules)

Once again, summary of informations we extracted from GW site, to get them all in one place:

- Zombies: S3 T3
- Dire Wolves: Slavering charge (+1S in charge), Vanguard
- Corpse Cart: W4, Chariot-style characteristics, Vigour Mortis (ASF in 6" if CC is LoV spell target)
- Grave Guard: Wight Blades (magical attacks) gone
- Blood Knights: I5
- Varghulf: I4, Vampiric (marching outside general's 12" march bubble) gone, Undead gone
- Zombie Dragon: WS4, T6, W6
- Vampire Lord: Lvl1, A5, The Hunger (wounds recovery in combat on 6+ once/round)

- Vlad: A5, The Hunger, heavy armour, Beloved in Death (ASF if Isabella is in the same unit)
- Mannfred: A5, The Hunger, Dark Acolyte, Lord of the Dead gone, Loremaster(Death) gone
- Konrad: A4, The Hunger, Hatred, Infinite Hatred gone

Another great summary post from YoungOlo

Summary of the Army List as we know it. Red is confirmed information, normal font is uncertain:

LORDS
- Vlad Von Carstein
- Mannfred Von Carstein
- Heinrich Kemmler 175 slaves

- Vampire Lord ~110 slaves
- Ghoul King (Strigoi Vampire: built-in Infinite Hatred and Regeneration (5+) ) ~115 slaves
- Master Necromancer 82,5 slaves (Level3)

HEROES
- Isabela Von Carstein
- Konrad Von Carstein
- Mannfred the Acolyte
- Krell 102,5 slaves

- Vampire 47,5 slaves
- Necromancer 32,5 slaves (Level1) / 50 slaves (Level2) / 60 slaves (Level2 + Master of the Dead)
- Wight King 42,5 slaves / 55 slaves (with BSB upgrade)
- Cairn Wraith 30 slaves
- Tomb Banshee 47,5 slaves

mounts:
- Zombie Dragon (Vampire Lords only) ~125 slaves
- Terrorgheist (Ghoul Kings only)
- Abyssal Terror
- Nightmare
- Skeletal Steed
- Hellsteed
- Coven Throne (Vampire Lords only) ~100 slaves
- Corpse cart (Necromancers only) ~40 slaves
- Mortis Engine (Necromancers only)

CORE UNITS
- Skeletons 2,5 slaves (hand weapon/shield, light armour) / 3 slaves (spear/shield, light armour)
- Zombies 1,5 slaves (Musician +2,5 slaves, Standard bearer +2,5 slaves)
- Ghouls 5 slaves
- Dire Wolves 4 slaves
- Bat Swarms 17,5 slaves

SPECIAL UNITS
- Corpse Cart 52,5 slaves (with Balefire)
- Grave Guard 5,5 slaves (hand weapon/shield)
- Black Knights 13 slaves (lance/barding)
- Hex Wraiths 15 slaves
- Fell Bats 8 slaves
- Vargheists 23 slaves
- Crypt Horrors 19 slaves
- Spirit Hosts 22,5 slaves

RARE UNITS
- Terrorgheist 112,5 slaves
- Mortis Engine 120 slaves (with Blasphemous Tome upgrade)
- Varghulf 87,5 slaves
- Black Coach
- Blood Knights 25 slaves
- Wraiths

MAGIC ITEMS
- Blood Drinker (Vlad only): Hunger works on 4+
- The Carstein Ring (Vlad only): 4+ ward save
- Cloak of Mists and Shadows (Kemmler only): Each turn choose if wearer is Ethereal or has Fly
- Flag of the Blood Keep 37,5 slaves (Blood Knights only): 4+ ward vs ranged attacks
- Black Axe of Krell

- Banner of the Barrows 25 slaves (all wights in unit get +1hit)
- Screaming Banner 12,5 slaves (enemies test fear on 3D6, discarding lowest)
- Scabscrath 37,5 slaves (frenzy, flaming attacks, devastating charge, Deathly Shriek (Terrorgheist-like attack), If you don't cause a wound in combat, wearer is killed instantly)
- Nightshroud 20 slaves (+1 AS, all models in basecontact get ASL&no bonuses to their strength)
- Black Periapt 25 slaves (stores 2 dice)
- Staff of Flaming Death 20 slaves (Bound Spell 3+, similar to Flame Cage)
- Book of Arkhan 12,5 slaves (Bound Spell 3+, casts Vanhel's Dance Macabre, doesn't burn out)
- Cursed Book 17,5 slaves (sacrifice D3 power dice to get off a random Hex spell of six (Miasma, Withering, Soulblight, Doom and Darkness, some Heavens spell and something else) as a bound with the minimal complexity)
- Staff of Damnation 17,5 slaves (Bound Spell 4+, all models in 6 inches (inc. mounts) get +1 attack untill next magic phase)

VAMPIRIC POWERS
- Dark Acolyte 12,5 slaves (+D3 wounds healed in Invocation of Nehek)
- Quickblood 15 slaves (ASF)
- Curse of the Revenant 22,5 slaves (+1 W)
- Red Fury 25 slaves (same as before, but can be used with 2HW)
- Mortal Strike 15pkt (trade in all attacks for 1 with HKB)
- Dreadknight 5 slaves (+2 WS, must issue and accept challenges unless Krell or a Vampire with a higher LD are part of the unit)
- Summon Creatures of the Night 5 slaves (increase bats, batswarms & wolves beyond starting size)
- Forbidden Knowledge 12,5 slaves (access to rulebook lores (doesn't get to know all spells))
- Master of the Black Arts (get to re-roll one D6 for the Winds of Magic)
- Flying Horror (Fly)
- Beguile (same as now)
- Aura of Dark Majesty (-1LD to all enemies in base contact)

LORE OF VAMPIRES

The Curse of Undeath (Lore attribute): When a spell form the Lore of the Vampires is successfully cast, the Wizard (or another friendly model within 12") instantly regains a single Wound lost earlier in the battle.

- Spell0: Invocation of Nehek (6+): Augment, range 6". Each friendly Undead unit within range recovers D6+wizard's level wounds. Can be boosted to range 12" or 18".
- Spell1: Vanhel's Dance Macabre (6+): Augment, grants extra movement up to 8" (no charging probably)
- Spell2: Hellish Vigour (8+): Augment, some combat buff
- Spell3: Gaze of Nagash (9+): Magic Missile, range 24"
- Spell4: Raise Dead (9+): Creates new unit of up to 15 zombies or skeletons (2D6+3 probably)
- Spell5: Curse of Years (12+): Hex, Remains in Play
- Spell6: Wind of Death (15+): Vortex, small round template. Moves Artilleryx3 inches. Any unit beneath or passed by the template takes D6 S3 hits for each rank of the unit, with no armour save allowed. Big S4 template can be used instead on a roll of 25+.

Disclaimer on the Magic Spells: I did my best, connecting various bits of information from WD to guess spell numbers and effects, but (apart from IoN and WoD, which are pretty obvious) this is just speculation on my side!

Also, WD confirms every Vampire, Vampire Lord and Ghoul King is a Level 1 caster by default. Also, Ghoul King for sure can use Magic Items and Vampiric Powers just like "normal" Vampire Lord. Hero-level Necromancers can be Level 1 or Level 2, Master Necromancers (Lord-level) can be Level 3, if they can be Level 4 remains unknown.


and finally we have some pictures.

Thanks to ZAlpha

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Offline Zak

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Re: New Vampire Counts Stuff
« Reply #51 on: January 06, 2012, 07:53:12 PM »
 :icon_eek: i need a bigger cannon
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Offline Delthos

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Re: New Vampire Counts Stuff
« Reply #52 on: January 06, 2012, 08:29:01 PM »
Wow! I'll probably never build a VC counts army if those points costs are true. 2.5 for skeletons and 1.5 for zombies. Unless you want to go crazy with gouls, bat swarms, and dire wolves, you're going to need around 300 skeletons/zombies just for a 2,000 point game. That makes me think they are doing away with spamming new units and res'ing units. Probably bringing it in line with Tomb King's res'ing.
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Offline towishimp

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Re: New Vampire Counts Stuff
« Reply #53 on: January 06, 2012, 08:50:55 PM »
Wow! I'll probably never build a VC counts army if those points costs are true. 2.5 for skeletons and 1.5 for zombies. Unless you want to go crazy with gouls, bat swarms, and dire wolves, you're going to need around 300 skeletons/zombies just for a 2,000 point game. That makes me think they are doing away with spamming new units and res'ing units. Probably bringing it in line with Tomb King's res'ing.

My thoughts exactly!  I had a sub-optimal 1500-pt. army of VC, but stopped building it to wait on the new book.  Now my skeletons that used to be 8 points each will be 2.5 each?  Awesome from a gaming point of view (they definitely needed a price drop), but terrible from a "I have to buy all this crap" standpoint.  I'm not interested in the giant "diorama monsters", so looks like my army will stay small for awhile.  Also, Mantic and Wargames Factory, here I come.
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Offline Fandir Nightshade

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Re: New Vampire Counts Stuff
« Reply #54 on: January 06, 2012, 09:21:10 PM »
I would guess one slave is two points five points sound about reasonable as do 26 points black nights

Offline FR1DAY

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Re: New Vampire Counts Stuff
« Reply #55 on: January 06, 2012, 09:55:57 PM »
A skaven slave is two points.
There are 40 different shades of black, so many fortresses and ways to attack.

So why you complaining!

Offline Zak

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Re: New Vampire Counts Stuff
« Reply #56 on: January 06, 2012, 11:14:46 PM »
 :icon_eek: and how much does it cost $ for a box set of 10 ?? HOLY MOLY thats an expensive army lol!  :icon_eek: :icon_eek: :icon_eek:
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Offline Mathi Alfblut

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Re: New Vampire Counts Stuff
« Reply #57 on: January 06, 2012, 11:43:36 PM »
Seems things will get nasty around here soon...
My Wood elves do need those 5 more extra Wild riders to give me that 10 strong unit, and I really should get more treekin...

As for Empire, yes, I want that Nuln siege cannon. And my Stirlanders needs more love it seems. Was going to go hard for Middenland but this sounds like I need to consider my Stirlanders even more... And all them heroes with magic weapons. Gotta make room for cheap captains...
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Offline Athiuen

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Re: New Vampire Counts Stuff
« Reply #58 on: January 07, 2012, 12:08:38 AM »
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Offline Finlay

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Re: New Vampire Counts Stuff
« Reply #59 on: January 07, 2012, 01:20:27 AM »
The giant chair thing is horrid.

The vargheists and big ghouls suffer from the same hunch problem as the normal ghouls.

Everything else looks cool.
I don't care about the rules.

Pass the machete.

Offline Michael W

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Re: New Vampire Counts Stuff
« Reply #60 on: January 07, 2012, 01:34:06 AM »
I definitely like the Wights - Krell, the King, the Black Knights - they all look great.  The ethereal fast cav looks downright silly.  Not such a fan of Isabella, either. 

Ah well.  My VC could use some love these days.  I agree on the ghoul comments...not such a fan of the current look on them, either.
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Offline Erkenbrand

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Re: New Vampire Counts Stuff
« Reply #61 on: January 07, 2012, 03:57:39 AM »
Nice pair of green paperweights  :engel:

Offline Gwyddyon

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Re: New Vampire Counts Stuff
« Reply #62 on: January 07, 2012, 04:58:57 AM »
While I feel as though I should dislike the new centerpiece Throne thing for being so crowded, it actually looks pretty fantastic in my opinion.  I have absolutely no interest in ever buying one because I'm positive I would never manage to actually paint it.  With a dragon I can at least kid myself for the few minutes it takes to make the transaction.

Offline Wolfgang aus Wien

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Re: New Vampire Counts Stuff
« Reply #63 on: January 07, 2012, 01:21:11 PM »
I've always kind of wondered how German players feel about GW happily butchering their language.
What's a 'Vargheist'?
A heist of Vargs (whatever they are...misspelled Hounds of Isengard?)
A Gheist (????) of Ze Var? As in 'Du nott mechun ze var!'?
I suppose the plural will be 'Vargheists'.....?
 :roll:

Offline Timbor

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Re: New Vampire Counts Stuff
« Reply #64 on: January 07, 2012, 01:32:49 PM »
Looks like preorders are up.

New VC cav - ~$30USD for 5 of them.  New OnG cav ~$25 USD for 5 of them.  I wonder if that will be the new price hike this year?  Or is that perhaps the premium you will pay for a combined kit?
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Offline rufus sparkfire

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Re: New Vampire Counts Stuff
« Reply #65 on: January 07, 2012, 01:51:07 PM »
New VC cav - ~$30USD for 5 of them.  New OnG cav ~$25 USD for 5 of them.  I wonder if that will be the new price hike this year?  Or is that perhaps the premium you will pay for a combined kit?

Except they have already increased the price of dark elf cold one riders to the same as the new black knights, as I said before on this thread.

I don't know why orc boar riders are exempt!


The black knights are nice, though rip-off-tastic. But the wraith cavalry look totally stupid.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2012, 01:53:17 PM by rufus sparkfire »
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Offline Timbor

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Re: New Vampire Counts Stuff
« Reply #66 on: January 07, 2012, 02:10:32 PM »
Huh?  Cold one riders are still $29.75 on the US site:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440050a&prodId=prod1490005

I agree the black knights look better - pretty cool even.

I guess its the paintjob on the wraith knights.  At first glance, it looks like they are swinging flowers around on the end of long sticks.  Perhaps they kill with kindness?

In comparison to before, the old metal/plastic cavalry from 6th edition was much more pricey.  I am pretty sure an old box of 5 orc boar boyz with the metal riders used to be like $50USD.  I think I remember seeing them for like $65 CAD...
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Offline rufus sparkfire

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Re: New Vampire Counts Stuff
« Reply #67 on: January 07, 2012, 02:18:13 PM »
Huh?  Cold one riders are still $29.75 on the US site:

£18.50 on the UK site, the same as the black knights. UK prices are the real prices!


The wraith cavalry have flames sculpted on, which almost never looks good. Also they are holding their scythes like fools.


Quote
In comparison to before, the old metal/plastic cavalry from 6th edition was much more pricey. 

Maybe, but what does that have to do with anything?

I'm more annoyed by the dark elf cavalry having its price increased so much than I am by the black knights costing what they do. Something new costing £18.50 is easier to justify than something old going from £12 to £18.50 in three or so years.


I actually quite want some black knights.
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Offline rufus sparkfire

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Re: New Vampire Counts Stuff
« Reply #68 on: January 07, 2012, 02:22:37 PM »
Blood knights are £60!

£60! For five!

And they aren't even made of metal.
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Offline Darknight

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Re: New Vampire Counts Stuff
« Reply #69 on: January 07, 2012, 02:44:22 PM »
you're going to need around 300 skeletons/zombies just for a 2,000 point game.

SERIOUS unit fillers - if the models are 2.5pts apiece you are likely going to be running 100 "man" blocks at the least, right? In that sort of set up (10x10 nominally) you could comfortabley get a couple of 90mm square unit fillers without it looking ridiculous. Skeletons have always had unit-filler-esque models in there; people used to run the back ranks as "rising from the grave" and they were nothing more than a torso, head and / or arm sticking out of the ground. With the spare pieces you get in a kit, you could do a lot of that.
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Offline Timbor

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Re: New Vampire Counts Stuff
« Reply #70 on: January 07, 2012, 02:48:50 PM »
Blood knights are £60!

£60! For five!

And they aren't even made of metal.

Yeah, but blood is getting expensive these days!  I'm pretty sure they are made out of blood...

Also, I remember them being ridiculously expensive when they were first released anyway.
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Offline rufus sparkfire

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Re: New Vampire Counts Stuff
« Reply #71 on: January 07, 2012, 02:51:45 PM »
Yeah, but blood is getting expensive these days!  I'm pretty sure they are made out of blood...

Also, I remember them being ridiculously expensive when they were first released anyway.

I'd rather they were made out of blood than resin!

They are daft looking models anyway, but I was shocked by the price. I'd be embarrassed to pay that much for them.


I quite like the plastic wight king though.
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Offline FR1DAY

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Re: New Vampire Counts Stuff
« Reply #72 on: January 07, 2012, 04:54:42 PM »
Skeletons are 5 point each not 2.5 so not so bad. 6 points with spears so the same as state troops and you don't see multiple units of a hundred of them.
Just use the mantic skeleton and zombies. Cheap and the best models they, or anyone, do.
There are 40 different shades of black, so many fortresses and ways to attack.

So why you complaining!

Offline Gneisenau

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Re: New Vampire Counts Stuff
« Reply #73 on: January 07, 2012, 07:20:05 PM »
Blood knights are £60!

£60! For five!

And they aren't even made of metal.

I got the Gamezone ones instead. They are cheaper and look better (and are made of metal, if that's important).

Edit: I think I'm sold on the Black Knights. Sprues look lovely.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2012, 07:36:23 PM by Gneisenau »

Offline towishimp

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Re: New Vampire Counts Stuff
« Reply #74 on: January 08, 2012, 08:20:22 PM »
Blood knights are £60!

£60! For five!

And they aren't even made of metal.

I got the Gamezone ones instead. They are cheaper and look better (and are made of metal, if that's important).

Edit: I think I'm sold on the Black Knights. Sprues look lovely.

Ditto on the Gamezone blood knights (Gamezone calls them mournful knights).  I bought 5 awhile back and love them.
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