Topic: The Minotaurs: End Times?... or Good Times?!

[Aldaris]

Never said you did, but this is the same "new army - must rage on-line" syndrome that happens each time something new is released.

Prices can't come as a surprise now can they?

If you consider what I did "rage", you should see me angry...
 
Case in point: I voiced a concern, in a calm and reasonable way. If that gets your fighting refexes going because of the topic, that's not my fault.
And prices actually can come as a surprise, a pleasant one. See Skaven.
But I guess everything has been said, so I'm happy to bow out of this particular discussion as well. Pint?
 

[Klaus Von Dunkelberg]

There is so much oddity in forthcoming Beastmen release I still don't believe it. Last time they did Beastmen (2003), they sculpted:

Chaos Ogres
Chaos Trolls
Shaggoth
Khorngor
Pestigor

Ogres, Trolls and Shaggoth (and Dragon Ogres) didn't make into new book and Chaos marks were dropped altogether. What the heck?

I don't know if this should of been a surprise to me, but it was. I think that Pestigors and Khorngors had too short of a run. I feel the same now as I did when I bought Chaos Trolls to use in my O&G army right before the BfSP-Slugdrool type Trolls were released. There aren't enough sculpts of those by the way, which is another discussion. The point I'm trying to make, Games Workshop needs to slow the tempo on new rules and models. I guess there are people screaming for this unit or that to receive updated models, but the outcome is like a damn pandora's box. In this case what came forth was the Razorgor. I just hope they never release anything so terribly awful for any of the armies I love.

[Aldaris]

They won't slow the rate of releases. New releases keep the excitement of players up and make them buy stuff. Simple really. And not a bad thing either. First, consider the outrage if they actually did slow the rate of releases. Then it would take even longer for out-of-date armies to be brought up to speed. Second, it's just sound business strategy. Nothing wrong with that.

[Sanctus]

the beasts book apparantly had lost evrything that made it unique.

when i think beasts i think herd rule , ambush and what not.

Gors/ungors are now separate units , ambush is removed. Beasts now rank up with no skirmish.
A lot of the rules for minotaurs requires to much dice rolling to reliable.

It sounds like a book thats been a big let down even though there was a lot oh hype about it.

[Shadowlord]

It sounds like a book thats been a big let down even though there was a lot oh hype about it.

On the contrary, this release is the most silent yet.

Even the internet buzz was slow, especially since those who had seen the models long before release, weren't too impressed.

I am warming towards the Beastmen everytime I take a look at the models (well the razorgor just makes me laugh...).

Also I am very intrigued by this Moonclaw character...

@ Aldaris, I was never angry or anything. I just type the way I talk. 

[Gneisenau]

I don't like most of the models and still find the Minos utterly ridiculous, but some of those rules PhillyT posted are nice. The ambush rule in particular is very easy to comprehend and to handle.

[Klaus Von Dunkelberg]

I am warming towards the Beastmen everytime I take a look at the models (well the razorgor just makes me laugh...).

I'm convinced there has to be some way to paint the Razorgor's eyes to make it look less goofy. Maybe solid black (highlighted gray on the edges) with very small red-to-orange-to-yellow pupils.

[Midaski]

I had the GW sales email today.
Some highlights:


Ungor Herd
 Ungor are the smaller cousins of the Gor and though less physically impressive, are far more cunning and dextrous. Now able to carry short bows and skirmish, Ungor are essential to the success of any warherd.

Razorgor
Razorgor are a brand-new unit type that charge into enemy units like living chariots, delivering four Strength 6 Attacks.
Everything else was already around or just BS sales

[Mathi Alfblut]

Well, the minos are clearly modelled on Belgian blues so that is at least pretty humouristic.

Well, like Aldaris, I voiced my concerns about GW wanting to estrange part of their customers and attract other groups. Is customer concerns always wrong, Shadowlord?
I have never liked GW:s idea about prizing according to precieved awesomeness and never will, but that is another point. Plastic is cheaper, give me cheaper and not just be some measly fraction!    Well, to some extent at least.

I found the price differentiation between the Orcs and Black orcs fair for example, same with undead and so on. But then it skyrocketed, seemingly based on some assumption that multipart models where more expensive to produce for some reason. I don´t by that until I get an unbiased person give me a neutral answer that reinforces that.

Anyway, I don´t see why you get angry when I was not really that condencending but tried to just reason my case. Still friends, Shadowlord? 


Anyway, I am warming towards the beastly units, but I can´t but feel the belgian blues became a tad to silly and oldfashioned.
The Pumbagor is growing to my fancy tough. But I want a Timon to go with it! 

You seem to be connected Shadowlord. Can´t you try and use your leverage to force GW into making a special character pair for Beasts? 

[Shadowlord]

Is customer concerns always wrong, Shadowlord?

If you are a customer who is less profitable to a company than your common man, without a doubt.

Anyway, I don´t see why you get angry when I was not really that condencending but tried to just reason my case. Still friends, Shadowlord? 

Um... I'm not angry, but I do not sit idle and watch people write stuff that aren't exactly true or relevant.

Can´t you try and use your leverage to force GW into making a special character pair for Beasts? 

I'm not connected, a friend is, but rest assured, the web will soon be crawling with Razorgors that has a small buddy riding on it... 

[phillyt]

I am distressed how sad some of the comment here are.

Some things:

The only thing Beastmen lost was mixed herds.  If you really think that is all that set them apart, you never should have touched the models or the book to begin with.  They still have plenty of skirmishers, including core ones for a cheap price, they still have core chariots, big monsters, ambush, and freaky characters.

Whats the issue?  Not mised herds?  Like I didn't hear enough wining about the rules with those...

As for the price of the models, $20 for a minotaur was too high. $45 for three?  Good.  Plus those of use who want them will buy them.  The more I see the models, they more I love them.

Phil

[jullevi]

They also lost Chaos Trolls, Ogres, Dragon Ogres, Dragon Ogre Shaggoth and Marks of Chaos, which explains a lot of the frustration.

[phillyt]

None of those defined the beastmen, they were parts of the WoC book.  Besides, most beast players used Minotaurs, not those models.

Marks are gone, but they have been replaced with race specific rules and mutations.  More characterful to me.

Phil

[Taureus]

None of those defined the beastmen, they were parts of the [strike]WoC[/strike] HoC book.  Besides, most beast players used Minotaurs, not those models.

Marks are gone, but they have been replaced with race specific rules and mutations.  More characterful to me.

Phil

Fixed.

And all these wacky new rules make me wanna play a new army...

[Mathi Alfblut]

Well, I gotta do dwarfs first, even if the idea of using Warlord celts as base for an army is smashing and better value for money (sorry for cursing, Shadowlord).
The minos are indeed, as I said, pretty good value for money. Sure, not as ogres, but still cheaper than they where. You cannot argue around that.
What annoys me are the Bestigors, but since I will not  be able to start a beast army with GW minis as far as I can see it is a moot point.

But with celts. Then I would happily buy the minotaurs just cause they are hillarious. They clearly are based on Belgian blue, but they are hillarious.
Come to think of it, with all them "Razorboars" running around, theming an army around Asterix & Obelix would be pretty nifty. 

And you could still have Timon & Pumba joining the rumble for good measure. 

[jullevi]

None of those defined the beastmen, they were parts of the WoC book.  Besides, most beast players used Minotaurs, not those models.

Actually, they were introduced into 6th edition via book titled "Beasts of Chaos". Granted, they weren't "Beasts" units per se, but still a important feature in an army known as Beasts of Chaos. They were dropped (well, moved into Warriors of Chaos book) and replaced by Pumbagors and silly large monsters without models. Personally I am not affected by the loss that much because I collect all Chaos armies, but it must annoy those who played Beasts of Chaos without mortals or daemons. Trolls and Ogres may not have been very popular choices, but Dragon Ogres were a common sight.

Personally, I don't mind splitting of herds and return of rank and file. I always thought huge units of skirmishers was an unsuitable concept for Warhammer as a whole and mixed unit caused too many rules problems. As far as I can see, treatment of Gors and Ungors is one of the few changes that please me in the new book. Although I am not too sure about the point costs that seem too high or Ambush that appears to be totally useless now.

[Aldaris]

On the contrary, this release is the most silent yet.

Even the internet buzz was slow, especially since those who had seen the models long before release, weren't too impressed.

Shadowlord is right. The internet buzz about the new releases seems to be squashed a bit by GW of late. When I think about last years IG release, there were thousands of rumors and the book was basically on the net weeks before the release. With the Skaven, there was a 100+ pages rumor thread on Warseer that just disappeared one day. When I inquired about it, I was told there had been trouble. It got ever quieter from then on. While on one side that makes me a bit sad, on the other side it is also nice to be able to buy a new army book and not already know it from cover to cover.

[Death]

i henceforth cristen beastman elite infantry the costigors.

[Mathi Alfblut]

Alright, so we got Goldswords and Costigors. What was the name on the new Stormvermins again?

[MrDWhitey]

Reasonablepricevermin ? 

[Merrick]

Shit?

[phillyt]

LOL, nicely done Merrick.

Jullevi:  I redundancy of all those US3 models was obvious even back then.  THe razorgors are better than the dragon ogres, so I am not too bothered by the loss.  Add the fact that many are simply going to use dragon ogres for them and it gets even easier.  I won't, I like the ionsanity that are the pumbas.

And I disagree with Hastings and Harry on the Minotaurs and doombull.  I like both models sets.

Phil

[Aldaris]

I won't, I like the insanity that are the pumbas.

To clarify... you like the model or the concept?

[phillyt]

The model.  Hilariously bad.  So bad its good level!

Rulewise they are pretty simple: M7 S5 T5 W3 A4 +1S on the charge, cause fear.  Nothing too complicated there.  But they hit really hard! 14" charge and 12 S6 attacks from a 170 point unit with the Toughness to stick around for a little while.

Phil

[Shadowlord]

And I disagree with Hastings and Harry on the Minotaurs and doombull.  I like both models sets.

They have been growing on those two, so I suspect it had to do with the Skaven release, personal preferences and so on.

I am with you on this one, this army for once, or again, feel real beasty and not just another - dark gods galore.