Topic: The Minotaurs: End Times?... or Good Times?!

[Aldaris]

My 2250 point list has 8 chariots, 2 jabberwocky, 2 units of minotaur, and a horde of about 80 ungor in various confirmations with shortbows.

So... you are moving to Hong Kong?





 

[Mathi Alfblut]

Indeed, it do looks as if Philly is moving to Hong Kong. Have you applied for visa yet, Philly? 

[warhammerlord_soth]

New expression :Battle "Hong Kong style"

[Midaski]

Phooey ............ 

[MrDWhitey]

Oh lord

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW54W9y6-eU

[Nicholas Bies]

Sun Tzu said "Hong Kong Gamers are 5 ft 2 and beat to pulp all other gamers."

[MrDWhitey]

"Usually due to outnumbering them 502 to 1, and attacking when the enemy is asleep"

 

Lets just make a backtable thread about Hong Kong gamers shall we?

[phillyt]

The list really isn't the strongest. Sure, the magic defense is high, but everything else?
25 Gors in ambush CAN be nice if they come on the right side, but too expensive to gamble on this. Three shamen, but two are LVL1? For 70 points more he would actually have a decent magic phase to build pressure. Especially if he foregoes two scrolls and takes a herdstone or hagtree fetish instead. and hiding three shamen in one unit of gors is risky too.

My thoughts exactly, though I would have just dropped two scrolls and pinched a point here and there for the other 2 levels.  And if you are really planing on ambushing, you need numbers.  Piles of numbers.  The lists I have been making have 5 - 6 ambushers.

Next a giant...we all know how good this guy is against any army with  boltthrowers or small arms fire.
Two units of harpies...i wouldn't do it, but has its merits. Leaves the army with only two hardhitting specials though.

No reason to take giants now, not when the ghorgon is so goo and only 65 points more.

And my list is hard, but not more so than my old lists.  And not really compared to any list with the audacity to drop two hydra.

Phil

[Moxer]

Does anybody know if ungor raiders can take a musician? That would be really awesome. Which unit sizes would you run for ambushind ungor raiders? The minimum 5 are cheap, but can not attack anything except warmachines i'd say. Maybe a rear attack on crossbowmen, but not more.
10 on the other hand get too expensive imo.

[Finlay]

My 2250 point list has 8 chariots, 2 jabberwocky, 2 units of minotaur, and a horde of about 80 ungor in various confirmations with shortbows.

So... you are moving to Hong Kong?





 

Phil has always made tough lists.

[rufus sparkfire]

Yes, he's an infamous powergamer.

[Nicholas Bies]

yes ungor archers can take a musician and champion.

TBH I've been very unimpressed with them in the 3 games I've played against the new beasts. I do like the idea of using them as a made bunker but as ambushes ld6... unless you're lucky enough to drop behind a no move and shoot unit you just get blown to shite and run off the table.

That said I haven't played a static army against them so against a gunline or infantry based list things may be different.

I think chariots can ambush (can't remember) if this is so then I would definetly put 2 in ambush at least. Very little can take a chariot out in 1 turn (and if you can take out a flanking chariot in 1 turn then you can probably take it out if it was deployed in the front anyway).

I'm looking forward to facing the Razagor Cav unit (looks very very good).

[Moxer]

Pretty sure chariots can not ambush, that would be too nasty! Minos from the front and chariots from the side/back could kill nearly anything.

Ungor raiders with music can be good, makes it much safer to attack and win against small stuff in the backfield.
And yes, they are quickly shot into panic and run of the board, but that means, that the shooting unit shoots at 30-40 points and not at your hitters, which is good. AND they have to turn around to do so (getting -1 to hit) and have to turn back next round getting another round of -1 to hit.

I see it this way: They are one of the cheapest units available, to deal with them the opponent has to use troops worth far more than the ungors. Either to shoot them, which is OK as explained above. Or he has to actually dedicate melee troops to kill them:
Real units worth 100 points. Fine try to get me!
Small units like hounds, detachments ect. Fine less diverters preventing my hitters from reaching the juicy stuff!
Or he ignores them. Also fine, they march block, take out war machines, threaten lone mages, take shots at soft stuff and (very important i think!) lay crossfire to prevent flee reactions by the opponent and to catch stuff the minos broke.

Sure, i haven't tried them yet, but i will field ambushing ungors for sure! I will also try 10-12 ranked with music. In ambush this could be nice and still cheap, problem is what to do with the unit that does not ambush...

[Nicholas Bies]

character bunker, sit back and hold/contest a table quater?

[Shadowlord]

Yes, he's an infamous powergamer.

Dang it! I was gonna say that.

[phillyt]

I love me powergaming!!!!1!~`!!

Seriously though, ungor skirmishers are fantastic in groups of 5.  They don't need, nor should they be expected to, hit anything alone.  They attack from behind or the flank, take soft points, and park while the hard stuff blows up and hits from the front.  If something flees through them, they die.

And no, chariots cannot ambush.  Apparently, hounds can't anymore either, but I haven't seen the rules.  Someone said it on Herdstone.

Phil

[Siberius]

Bah! That'd be sad, ambushing hounds are one of the staples of my army and were rightly feared by any who I played due to my always passing at least one of their ld tests, if not both every game.

And I always did it because for so few points, it's not even like I miss them elsewhere.

I am liking the sound of ungor skirmishers though. Being skirmished, I was always going to have some, they will have to be the new annoyance units of choice.

[Nicholas Bies]

pretty sure hounds can ambush, at least they did against me...

[MrDWhitey]

That a player in your community ambushed hounds merely means he ambushed hounds, it doesn't mean he was actually playing by the rules.

It is Hong Kong after all. 

[Nicholas Bies]

That a player in your community ambushed hounds merely means he ambushed hounds, it doesn't mean he was actually playing by the rules.

It is Hong Kong after all. 

and it was thomas, who is a known cheat (he used that nurgle only banner on a slaaneshi character, which oddly enough was in a Khorne Knight unit...)

[phillyt]

Like I said, first thing I heard about it was yesterday, someone mentioned that hounds counldn't ambush.  I won't have my book til Friday night, so can't say for sure.

Phil

[Nicholas Bies]

Like I said, first thing I heard about it was yesterday, someone mentioned that hounds counldn't ambush.  I won't have my book til Friday night, so can't say for sure.

Phil

seems odd that the pack hounds won't be able to flank

[Moxer]

@PhillyT:  Units of 5 ungor to the back of a unit can well result in one ungor dying. Then they are no more US 5 and thus don't give the rear bonus. That's why i am considering slightly larger units of 6-7.
On the other it can be questioned if they should attack at all. They won't reliably make any kills and can easily loose two of their own thus negating the benefit of the rear attack.
Minos should be able to break most things that could be wounded by ungor anyways, so they can well wait and lay crossfire.

[phillyt]

I didn't mean rear charging, I meant parking them behind units to destroy them when they flee the minotaur, who won't be catching anything with only a 1d6 pursuit!

Phil

[Moxer]

Yup, that's what they will be good at. I just wondered, because you wrote "will attack from the flank or rear"
I am currently thinking if a beastlord on razorchariot is a too big target to be viable. A beastlord only makes sense in Gors or Bestigors and both units are suboptimal. So i am thinking of putting him on a razorchariot. But that will be close to 400 points! Big target for warmachines...
But if the opponent has no hill he can be easily screened by ungors and warmachines should be under attack by turn three anyways. (By turn three the BL will be in combat, too. But being the beast he is, he will run down something and stand in the open afterwards.)