Topic: Metal or Plastic? That is the question.

[Avestron]

Good morning all 

I figured I'd ask this question both from the perspective of the player and the craftsman.

In developing my present army I have acquired models of both types - and am curious about the pros and cons of each material.

- - - - -

From my limited personal experiences I have found that metal is difficult to repair - and significantly heavier.

Looking forward to some more experienced and detailed views though (including, perhaps, a little advice on repairing metal bits that suffer the rigours of postage? ;cP)

[White Knight]

You can achieve fine detail in metal that is simply not available in plastic (while you can get even finer detail in resin that you can't get from metal).

Also, since metal miniatures are much cheaper and much quicker to produce, they are still the first choice for miniatures that you don't have to sell thousands of before you start earning some money back.

[Avestron]

...I am also having difficulty repairing a bright mage that feels heavier than plastic and yet lighter than metal. Unfortunately the greatsword pommel snapped just above the hand grips 

At my disposal I have Model Master liquid cement for plastics - Advice would be appreciated as its a nice model (both broken parts were unpainted so they were probably mods by the previous owner)

I have used this, scraping excess glue - but end up with too much flex and too little rigid integrity.

Edit - Thanks for the feedback White Knight :c) Interesting perspective on metals ^_^

[Kirgan]

I have one rule take model which I like no mater of material 

[pincushion]

Plastics bounce better than metal (I have croncrete floors)
Metal is WAY easier to strip paint from (I suck at painting)
Older metal models can sometimes use plastic bits, plastic models with metal bits tend to need counter weights 
Personally I don't think it makes any real difference look wise, I perfer metal because its more durable. Straighten it, pin it, glue it. (add green stuff it if it's a large model)

[White Knight]

Oh and there is resale value too.

Metal figures will hold their value, perhaps even become worth a lot over time if they are OOP, even if they are smothered in many layers of paint.

Plastic figures are devalued the minute you clip them off the sprue, more when you assemble them and will only get you small change if they are painted (unless it's to a very high standard)

[Todosi]

...I am also having difficulty repairing a bright mage that feels heavier than plastic and yet lighter than metal. Unfortunately the greatsword pommel snapped just above the hand grips 

At my disposal I have Model Master liquid cement for plastics - Advice would be appreciated as its a nice model (both broken parts were unpainted so they were probably mods by the previous owner)

I have used this, scraping excess glue - but end up with too much flex and too little rigid integrity.

Your bright mage is likely a resin model if it doesn't feel like metal or plastic.  Plastic glue works by melting the plastic together, literally welding it.  So it only works on plastic.  You need to use superglue.

[CM Dante]

Metal figures take far longer to prepare for painting than plastic (if you really car about getting a perfectly smooth surface.

As metals are often heavily batch cast in rubber moulds, the surface is often slightly pitted and therefore requires a couple of milliput washes and sanding to get a smooth surface, especially on areas which will be metallic (smooth surface is the most important starting point for good metallics).

Even removing flash takes much longer as it is harder.

Plastics also offer more conversion potential - easier to pin smaller pieces, less weight so less likely to break.

 Still, I prefer metal models.

 The biggest frustration for me is the lack of consistency between size of ranges - even those released at the same time. Metals are often either much larger or much smaller than plastics.

For manufacturers, I recall Jez Goodwin telling me the moulds for plastics cost over £100,000 - £200,000 a go. By comparison metal moulds only cost £100 or so at most.

[Avestron]

Thanks for the advice Todosi  It was getting disheartening to see fix after fix fail. 

- - - - -

Also some very compelling arguments both in favour of and against metals. I had no idea that metal units were THAT much cheaper to produce!  Shame it doesn't reflect in prices - is that down to shipping?

[Midaski]

I had no idea that metal units were THAT much cheaper to produce!  Shame it doesn't reflect in prices - is that down to shipping?

The cost of the moulds is not a reflection on the cost of production.

I watched a metal moulding machine in action at Recoubt once a few years ago.

Metal minis are usually made on a spinning machine, and the mould is circular with maybe 12 minis around the circle.
Each spinning cycle takes a few minutes, as liquid metal is poured in and the spinning motion forces it to all 'corners' of the mould.

I guess an experienced operator may be able to run 6-8 operations an hour. You would have to wait for each mould to cool, and then separate the two halves, take the minis out, and then check that the moulds are clean of flash/debris before the next 'spin'.

Plastic sprues I believe are produced much much faster which is where you get your money back. If you can churn thousands of sprues out in a day, as opposed to 6-700 then the cost of the moulds is recouped.

We ought to have an article somewhere about this.
These are the people all the UK plastics minis people are using to make the models:

http://renedra.co.uk/

[CM Dante]

Yes, also - metal mini moulds degrade much quicker than plastics mini moulds so need to be remade about every couple of hundred mini's or so. Still cheaper than plastic mould making process for figures which will be sold in relatively low volumes, but it's not simply in the hundreds in terms of total cost for production of metal figures.

For a company like GW, who can shift a lot of models, there are definite long term savings in making plastics vs metal - provided sales of the range will justify it.

The unfortunate downside for the consumer is - if you think the kit looks guff, it's probably still going to be used for a couple of generations of the rules before it's replaced!

[Avestron]

Thanks to all for the feedback ^_^

So the word is still out - and it comes down to one's priorities as to whether plastics or metals are actually better.

I've finally got my hands on some cyanoacryate and it has certainly done the trick as metal glues go. ^_^ Seems rigid enough to paint without getting into further reinforcement.

[Uryens de Crux]

Just to counter the "time taken to prepare metals"

I find just as much time needs to be taken putting plastics together, filling in gaps, cleanin mold lines and such like off.

also, Metals dont tend to fall over as much on the table as plastics

But whoever said "if you like the figure, the material is unimportant" got it spot on.

That said, I prefer metals because thats what I know.

[Gneisenau]

It's easier to get paint of metal than of plastic. That can both be and advantage (cleaning!) and a disadvantage (peel).

I find that if I have painted metal models for some time, I appreciate switching to plastic, and vice versa.

[Shadowlord]

Whoever said plastic can't be detailed not only need new glasses, he/she should give up the hobby.

The days of McDonalds plastics are over.

Metal sucks so many ways I am having a hard time reading the pro-metal posts without ripping my nuts off.

[Gneisenau]

I like metal models. They are in so many ways better than plastic. They simply have more value! Hold them in your hand: They are heavy, and we all know that heavy things are valuable.

Plastic sucks.

[CM Dante]

Just to counter the "time taken to prepare metals"

I find just as much time needs to be taken putting plastics together, filling in gaps, cleanin mold lines and such like off.

also, Metals dont tend to fall over as much on the table as plastics

But whoever said "if you like the figure, the material is unimportant" got it spot on.

That said, I prefer metals because thats what I know.

Depends entirely on your definition of "prep work".

For me, prepping a metal model goes something like:

- clip off large flash and vent tags
- trim moderate left over flash with scalpel
- file down mould lines
- sand all mould line surfaces with 800 grit wetdry (also an really rough areas get this too)
- sand all surfaces with 1200 grit wetdry
- wash mini in hot soapy water
- apply epoxy putty to larger gaps
- apply milliput wash in as many layers as required to all surfaces
- light sanding of all surfaces with 1200 grit wet dry
- prime

There are aboult half as many steps required with plastics and it cannot possibly be argued that removing mould lines etc on plastics takes a fraction of the time and effort. Metal mould lines often have a slight recess which requires filling to create a level surface, plastics almost never have this problem.

Also, smaller gap filling and surface work on plastics can be done with quick trying plastic putties which speeds up the process significantly.

While plastics are undoubtably vastly improved, they still lack a lot of the crisp, sharp edges of metals (see faces etc). They are easier to work with, but neither is "better" than the other in my book as both have pros and cons.

Plus, they don't make the classic metal empire minis in plastic!

[Shadowlord]

I like metal models. They are in so many ways better than plastic. They simply have more value! Hold them in your hand: They are heavy, and we all know that heavy things are valuable.

Plastic sucks.

You suck!

Heavy things only apply to meat.

[red bull]

Not all heavy things are good. If you're wife suddenly stopped excersing and put on 300lbs would you say that was good?

[DariusZero]

For me, prepping a metal model goes something like:

- clip off large flash and vent tags
- trim moderate left over flash with scalpel
- file down mould lines
- sand all mould line surfaces with 800 grit wetdry (also an really rough areas get this too)
- sand all surfaces with 1200 grit wetdry
- wash mini in hot soapy water
- apply epoxy putty to larger gaps
- apply milliput wash in as many layers as required to all surfaces
- light sanding of all surfaces with 1200 grit wet dry
- prime

There are about half as many steps required with plastics and it cannot possibly be argued that removing mould lines etc on plastics takes a fraction of the time and effort. Metal mould lines often have a slight recess which requires filling to create a level surface, plastics almost never have this problem.

Also, smaller gap filling and surface work on plastics can be done with quick trying plastic putties which speeds up the process significantly.

While plastics are undoubtedly vastly improved, they still lack a lot of the crisp, sharp edges of metals (see faces etc). They are easier to work with, but neither is "better" than the other in my book as both have pros and cons.

Plus, they don't make the classic metal empire minis in plastic!

Thou I find your post highly informative, I doubt people invest that much prep work on their metal minis. Especially for their metal RNF models. This kind of preparation would be reasonable only for character or collectors minis, which are fairly few in numbers compared to plastic foot soldiers.

Whoever said plastic can't be detailed not only need new glasses, he/she should give up the hobby.

The days of McDonalds plastics are over.

Metal sucks so many ways I am having a hard time reading the pro-metal posts without ripping my nuts off.

I think plastic nowadays is indeed much superior in quality, hardness and level of details than it used to be. But the same goes for metal minis as well, thou the improvement in the later has been much lesser than with the plastic.

Still, they keep character and collector range in metal...... and that says something.

[CM Dante]

Yes, as I said, it depends on your definition of prep work. While I wouldn't expect someone making an army to go to the same level, my point remains in that, whatever level of prep you are going to, if you did so equally on both materials, plastic prep would be quicker.

[Badwolf]

I personally prefer metal and unipose plastics. That probably sounds absurd to most people. It's not so much the assembly time, which doesn't really bother me, but the fact that unipose models can take a few knocks and may only require a touch up of the paintwork whereas most multipart models, unless pinned to start with, have a tendency to separate into their component parts. 

[Avestron]

That could be put down to the use of an inappropriate type or dozage of plastic cement/ glue. I have found that attempting to use glue and debris as a repositioner works less well than I would like, the former being applied in sufficient doze to accentuate its plasticity - hence weakening the model.

Plastic bits need to be wedged together with sufficient (not excessive) glue so as to maximize rigidity.

Also - the fact that characters and collectables comes only in metal could be put down to the reasonable expectation that they are sold in quantities too little to justify the cost of switching to plastic.

[Crimsonsphinx]

It really depends on what the model is for.  I really like metal models 

Plastics are fine for rank and file but I like characters to be metal.  Plastics are better and easier to be converted though.  So if you kitbash a lot like I do, then plastics are good!

[Mogsam]

I enjoy painting metal ALOT more than I enjoy painting plastic.