Empire Arcane Journal armies revealed

[Qrab]

Everyone needs to cool it with wishing for the Empire Armies of Infamy being anything other than mediocre. The Games Workshop design team has never done right by the Empire despite it being the default “setting” for the game. The War Wagon will be over priced and under powered. The Nuln gunline will be a boring one trick pony with a slight twist. The Knighly Orders will be another bland one trick pony (with no foot knights). The special characters are likely going to be the most interesting offering because that’ll give people a reason to buy the new models. If we’re lucky we might get a decent magic item or two, but this book isn’t going to contain anything that magically makes a traditional* Empire army competitive.

And to be honest I won’t be bothered when my prediction comes true because I love my old Empire models and I’m happy to have a reason to paint them again even if they suck on the battlefield because it makes the wins that much more special.


*i.e. combined arms with a focus on blocks of infantry.

[Warlord]

Exactly.
I find it very hard to believe the war wagon will be costed well.
And I also find it hard to believe the Armies of Infamy in the AJ will be all that fantastic either.
I am just hoping for interesting Free Company rules.

[Perforated]

Everyone needs to cool it with wishing for the Empire Armies of Infamy being anything other than mediocre. The Games Workshop design team has never done right by the Empire despite it being the default “setting” for the game. The War Wagon will be over priced and under powered. The Nuln gunline will be a boring one trick pony with a slight twist. The Knighly Orders will be another bland one trick pony (with no foot knights). The special characters are likely going to be the most interesting offering because that’ll give people a reason to buy the new models. If we’re lucky we might get a decent magic item or two, but this book isn’t going to contain anything that magically makes a traditional* Empire army competitive.

And to be honest I won’t be bothered when my prediction comes true because I love my old Empire models and I’m happy to have a reason to paint them again even if they suck on the battlefield because it makes the wins that much more special.


*i.e. combined arms with a focus on blocks of infantry.

I find this to be a very pessimistic take as it simply assumes the very worst.

Realistically the AJ will not provide the massive overhaul that Empire needs in order to function as a combined arms army. That said, the special characters could very well provide some nice features. There is good precedent in the previous AJs for useful magic items and as for the War Wagon... Well, it might whiff completely, or it might also be half-decent.

I choose to lean to the positive side of being realistic, but that's just me.

[drweir4]

If we look at the AJ to date there has been a range of impact

Brets, tk and o&g I think we’re very impactful, items are used regularly, special characters slightly less so but then all of the variant lists regularly see play at tournaments

Dwarfs is maybe slightly less impactful but maybe that’s just because it’s a less competitive faction overall and nothing they got really changed that. There are certainly some variant lists around but id say it’s much more limited than the above

The chaos one is maybe the least impactful. Some cool new items but chaos already had more than enough. Wolves of the sea is great fun but apparently not really competitive in the “meta” and the other one is trash. But then it’s also the least time so the full impact maybe hasn’t come through but fundamentally the good chaos lists and options are still basically the same from before

So if it’s o&g level we are in for a treat, or brets or tk would be fine. I am worried given the treatment of empire to date and the names of the lists released that we are looking at more like chaos

[Damar]

Exactly.
I find it very hard to believe the war wagon will be costed well.
And I also find it hard to believe the Armies of Infamy in the AJ will be all that fantastic either.
I am just hoping for interesting Free Company rules.

Did they announce they are going to rewrite them?*

As for AJ, so far we only see the bit "plus special characters, units, and magic to take into battle." which in no way reveals that we might get something else than what we already sort of assumed earlier.

Of course "Magic" could mean something else than new magic items such as "Empire signature spells"  but it is probably best to assume no such thing is forthcoming until previews (which I hope they start putting out well in advance)

[Qrab]

I find this to be a very pessimistic take as it simply assumes the very worst.

When it comes to Games Workshop, assuming the worst has never steered me wrong. If my assumptions turn out to be unfounded, then I’m pleasantly surprised. If my assumptions are correct, then I’m not disappointed.

[Qrab]

The chaos one is maybe the least impactful. Some cool new items but chaos already had more than enough. Wolves of the sea is great fun but apparently not really competitive in the “meta” and the other one is trash. But then it’s also the least time so the full impact maybe hasn’t come through but fundamentally the good chaos lists and options are still basically the same from before

The Wolves of the Sea Army of Infamy allows for a very competitive army that is different from the standard chaos lists: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9WIsMykmxaw.

[drweir4]

I’m sure wolves of the sea can be good, but I haven’t seen it prominently in the stats yet; especially online and there’s a big difference between rl “competitive” and actual top level

All 3 chaos in top 16 of sbot2 are grand army

[Damar]

They dropped an article the new special character Hans von Löwenhacke.

In summary: Hans can game on who goes first and gives full LD bonuses to mercenaries.

As a General of the Empire, Hans von Löwenhacke can be included in any eligible army list, but he makes the ideal leader for a City-state of Nuln army �" which can take up to 25% of its points value as mercenaries to accompany the war machines and ranged units. His rules, and those for Nuln, are contained in the upcoming Arcane Journal: Empire of Man, while the general himself will be available in Forge World resin.

Since we currently only have Ogres, Dwarves and Doomseekers (well, they are dwarves too) as Empire Mercenaries, I guess there must be another Dogs of War unit forthcoming in the new AJ (since there should be 1-2 pages free for them) as they seem to make a fairly big thing about them with Hans. In best case it could even be sort of "generic mercenary" unit that you can tailor around any old DoW miniatures you might have (one can dream...)

Will be nice if they drop us weekly previews before New Year.

[drweir4]

wow, wasnt expecting early information

seems very cool and characterful - I agree seems very dependent on what mercenaries are available

[Damar]

Since Freydaal was week ago and Hans was now, I assume nexr week we get the Knights Panther guy...

[Perforated]

wow, wasnt expecting early information

seems very cool and characterful - I agree seems very dependent on what mercenaries are available

We get Badland Ogre bulls, Imperial Dwarves, Prince Ulthers dragon company and Doomseekers. I'd imagine that given the reveal we might see some kind of "imperial ogres" with extra options/rules as well.

[Qrab]

I’m sure wolves of the sea can be good, but I haven’t seen it prominently in the stats yet; especially online and there’s a big difference between rl “competitive” and actual top level

All 3 chaos in top 16 of sbot2 are grand army

Did you watch the video?

[Qrab]

They dropped an article the new special character Hans von Löwenhacke.

In summary: Hans can game on who goes first and gives full LD bonuses to mercenaries.

As a General of the Empire, Hans von Löwenhacke can be included in any eligible army list, but he makes the ideal leader for a City-state of Nuln army �" which can take up to 25% of its points value as mercenaries to accompany the war machines and ranged units. His rules, and those for Nuln, are contained in the upcoming Arcane Journal: Empire of Man, while the general himself will be available in Forge World resin.

Since we currently only have Ogres, Dwarves and Doomseekers (well, they are dwarves too) as Empire Mercenaries, I guess there must be another Dogs of War unit forthcoming in the new AJ (since there should be 1-2 pages free for them) as they seem to make a fairly big thing about them with Hans. In best case it could even be sort of "generic mercenary" unit that you can tailor around any old DoW miniatures you might have (one can dream...)

Will be nice if they drop us weekly previews before New Year.

In the Warhammer Armies book for 3rd edition there’s some flavor text stating Nuln is known for hiring Tilean crossbowmen. It’d be interesting if the new book incorporated that old reference (maybe even a return of the Marksmen of Miragliano, but that’s probably asking too much).

[Damar]

Of course, Mercenaries in general tend to be somewhat expensive and used to fill a niche that you cannot cover by yourself right now. Ironically what empire is perhaps lacking the most at the moment is reasonably priced line infantry  :-P

[lcmiracle]

I don't like lowenhacke's pauldrons -- what, does he think he's a Chaos Warrior or a Space Marine!? Square him, I say

[OMoran]

I guess we can hope for two mercenary units: Imperial ogres (the one in the preview article had an handgun so maybe some kind of maneaters?) and who knows about the other, maybe Tileans, maybe Halflings.

Tileans with either Pikes or Crossbows would be good if properly costed (and if pikes have good rules with a decent AP and BS4 XBows).
Halflings maybe a little less good, since we have decent archers, but we're talking about cheap BS4 archers, if they go by their old statline.

As a former DoW player i'm excited at the focus on mercenary units in the Nuln AoI. Can't wait to see the actual AJ, and who cares about competitiveness if i can play my favoured miniatures.

[Damar]

We have Empire Missile Troops, Dwarven Crossbows and Border Prince Brigands for "good guys" and DoW miniatures are good substitute for two of them, so what would be the ultimate purpose of such as entry when "more interesting" things are out there too.

Pikes might of course show up.

[Skyros]

In best case it could even be sort of "generic mercenary" unit that you can tailor around any old DoW miniatures you might have (one can dream...)

There is precedent for a' build your own unit' basically, from the border princes Brigand, which can be given a fantastic array of weapon options/useful rules.

That said, I would really love a fully fleshed out dogs of war army at some point. And Kislev!

[Clymer]

Any hunches for the knightly orders list? I’m wondering whether it will require focus on one order, or if it will be multiple orders in a list. I also wonder if we’ll get a new order altogether. I think Reiksguard knights go back far enough and there’s a new mounted character we don’t know what it is yet… maybe a new order?

[Perforated]

Any hunches for the knightly orders list? I’m wondering whether it will require focus on one order, or if it will be multiple orders in a list. I also wonder if we’ll get a new order altogether. I think Reiksguard knights go back far enough and there’s a new mounted character we don’t know what it is yet… maybe a new order?

It is speculated that the new mounted character is a grand master of the Knights Panther. Or possibly just a plastic Grand master with the bits to make various orders.

[lcmiracle]

Any hunches for the knightly orders list? I’m wondering whether it will require focus on one order, or if it will be multiple orders in a list. I also wonder if we’ll get a new order altogether. I think Reiksguard knights go back far enough and there’s a new mounted character we don’t know what it is yet… maybe a new order?

Reiksguards as they were in 8th edition were created under the Auspice of Emperor Wilhelm III (empire army book P44) after his coronation. Wilhelm is the first of Holswig-Schliestein Emperors, of which Karl-Franz is the last. Wilhelm III ascended in 2429 IC due to the scandal which resulted in Marienburg's succession -- some 153 after the "current time".
It doesn't matter in my mind since I always thought it stupid to single-out the Reiksguard Knights as special in 8th. They should have been given some sort of special rule specific to their order, like the other 3 KO from 4th. Or just never be given a special spot, having their role be taken by the inner circle knights instead.
Regardless there were the Reiklander Knights in the 2006 video game Mark of Chaos and during the Battle for Solland's Crown and subsequent Gorbad's siege on Altdorf, the Reikguards were mentioned again as personal bodyguards of the Reikland Emperor Sigismund -- and that was back in 1707 IC...
I personally prefer if the Reiksguard and the Knights of the Fiery Heart being merged into a special rule which represents them as Sigmarite Templars...

[Damar]

If Mercenaries are a thing for the Empire, I do hope they have some magical item like "Commanders helmet" which boosts LD by +1 and allows mercenaries to benefit from Hold the Line! etc. so people do not need to use special character all the time.

[Tiberius]

If Mercenaries are a thing for the Empire, I do hope they have some magical item like "Commanders helmet" which boosts LD by +1 and allows mercenaries to benefit from Hold the Line! etc. so people do not need to use special character all the time.

We need some sort of magic item helmet most definitely.  Many other factions have them. We can’t get to a 2+ armor save without a barded horse or demigryph and that’s a shame.

[Perforated]

If Mercenaries are a thing for the Empire, I do hope they have some magical item like "Commanders helmet" which boosts LD by +1 and allows mercenaries to benefit from Hold the Line! etc. so people do not need to use special character all the time.

We need some sort of magic item helmet most definitely.  Many other factions have them. We can’t get to a 2+ armor save without a barded horse or demigryph and that’s a shame.

Helm of the Skaven slayer would work from a chronological perspective since its wearer is long dead. A simple "the wearer causes fear" would be next to useless though, considering the ToW rules for fear. So something else would have to be done.

Or, simply invent some new kind of helm :ph34r: